Petition to Stand Up & Protect Our Troops and County (February 1458)

Beemo wrote:You may know why Lady Jeal was not named captain. I do not know which is why I asked for clarification. Our council does much behind closed doors and is very quiet about what they do.

I did not say you were stupid or even implied it. I'm simply asking questions.

Jealeaia wrote:I have not made any threat...I have stated facts...

11-02-2010 04:08 : You are neither the captain nor an army noble: your army will be disbanded in 5 days!

I find it quite the shame my army will be disbanding when I just got my groups set and with those I can rotate with...I know we have time and setting up so troops could have a break and go fishing now and then...

And like I stated as fact ...I will not put myself under another command I have no trust in ...that isn't a threat ...it's just a fact...if you wish my services then make sure I trust who's in command...even if it's not me...

degas wrote:Lets not waste our time with Beemo, she deserves no answers. She wishes two things, attention and to sow discord. Now that she has gotten all she can from Cumberland and given little back, she has already made plans to leave. She deserves no answers. We have more pressing matters than to answer the questions of an ill mannered woman.

Aelfgar wrote:Marslynn, I do not think anyone is stupid - far from it. However making an inference then running with it as if it is fact is precisely what I was refering too.

Lady Jealeaia I accept your position, though it saddens me.

Beemo wrote:

degas wrote:Lets not waste our time with Beemo, she deserves no answers. She wishes two things, attention and to sow discord. Now that she has gotten all she can from Cumberland and given little back, she has already made plans to leave. She deserves no answers. We have more pressing matters than to answer the questions of an ill mannered woman.

Aww Degas you're so kind to me. I have made my intentions to leave well known and I'm not really sure what I ever got from Cumberland but a few good friends.

But I am still a citizen and I do believe we all have a right to know what our council is doing.

degas wrote:Cornwall
Reading
Oxford
Stafford
Chester
Appleby
Ireland
Scotland etc etc

The countries, towns, counties that the WoS have attacked go on and on, and people wonder why they are so distrusted.

I do not say that every Wolf is evil. I am sure some would defend Mother England. but I am hesitant to work with any of them, simply because I do not know who of them I can trust, How could I bind them to an oath? Which ones could I trust? If I could find a way, I might work with some of them, Can someone come up with a solution? They have betrayed England at least once. They have destroyed or damaged the economy of more than one county. Some of them have joined the NNGO. I would never welcome a Wolf army, but if certain individuals could give me a guarantee I would be willing to accept them The only problem is I am not smart enough to come up with the solution by myself They say they work for the common man, but how many times have their actions damaged the welfare of the same people they profess to defend? They must remember that it is not easy to regain trust. If they ever want to they must work at it.

Gabrielle,

I am ashamed of your actions, to condemn the welfare of a whole people because they do not wish to work with those who have not yet proven themselves is reprehensible. For one who achieved the title of Princess. you have very little insight. Do you remember the fable of the scorpion and the frog? The frog helps the Scorpion cross the river, but the scorpion kills the frog anyway, his answer is that it was in his nature. Until they prove otherwise, how are they any different? For one who has achieved so much, you show little compassion or understanding.

I suggest you help Cumberland and do not attach any strings to it. The defense of England starts here. If one county falls it weakens the rest and makes it that much easier to take England. It is time to throw away your ego. A house divided cannot stand. I suggest if some of the WoS want to prove that they truly care they take the first step, then another or find some other way to gain our trust. England is divided and if we don't start to work together soon, we are doomed, get rid of the phoniness, greed, pretentions... or we will fall. I am sure more than one of our supposedly upstanding citizens will join the NNGO...cough Loxley.

Take examples from good men like Gregarious, Paddy to name a few. Those men are the pinnacle of honor. If we had more like them we would be invincible.

I have already said to much, It is time to take my leave.

Arckangels wrote:Ok beemo are you freaking serious or short memory of about your terms has duchess.You exactly get in has duchess on the fact that we were not transparent you revive the back door entry that we call parliament of cumberland.....now yiet again dead.

what did you do exept weekening cumberland on the jah sake of good relation whit scotland and to pleased the HoP.......ha yes you did the same closed door and no info......i must be honest you did infomes citizen the 2 first weeks.

At least we had a good reason to go mute we had a cripples council(because of occ of many players that were sitting on council) that work whit all we got untill the end......

for me serving under you leadership has duchess was the most painfull time i ever served on a council still i am her again in the thick and hard....were are you ha yes the one that is soon leaving the county.

maybe the fews general that command the army can help me out i wonder if you were somewere on the army row call last attack we had.For an outstanding citizen and former duchess it would be normal to ask that question has many soldiers have left their home from all arround england to join the army.

Trisalene wrote:Trisalene enters the scene and listens. It is with great effort that she keeps her temper and the piercing in her chest at bay. Taking a deep breath, she turns first to her long comrade and friend, Lady Marslynn.

So because the Cumberland Council has chosen to change the position of Captain, which is what they have done, in favor of another commander with experience… whether certain people value that experience or not… you would take "your" men of Somerset and leave here?

She watches her a moment, a slightly pained look in her eyes before turning to the others.

First I would like to say thank you for the warm welcome in Cumbria. I am glad to stand and serve beside each and every one of you...

Now, for my part, I’d like to clarify a statement brought here from my person. It is true that I suggested what was stated here in the event it was decided to let any members of the WoS join the border efforts. However, that conversation was one to open an assessment of feelings on the matter of excluding ANY group from defending the border, not just the WoS, though that was the trigger.

I never said that I supported their inclusion. I never suggested that Cumberland accept their aid. One thing I did say… and I quote:

Trisalene wrote:- I would not replace any soldier with him (WoS in question) either, let alone the several that may leave the army if he is added. This will need to be addressed carefully if it is to be considered, of course. We don't want to lose upright soldiers.

I am open to all considerations as I am not the be all say all of this campaign. I hope the Council of Cumbria considers all options, certainly including the sentiments of those soldiers here defending. I do believe they are doing this. I also hope that all soldiers take it upon themselves to speak, as some are speaking. However, you say you will leave outright just because the 9th is disbanding? I suppose that is your choice… but somehow I was under the impression that you were not here under the leadership of one person alone and were instead here to defend England. There are others here with great vision, experience, and knowledge… both given and earned. If you will not value them and stay to aid England, I for one will mourn your loss...

I call to you all, please! Enough of this!! Must we always be tearing each other to pieces!?

Trisa, having felt herself near the edge of her frustrations with England's refusal to stand together... falls silent. She swallows the hollow in her throat and steps back, listening again as the conversation continues on.

{White_Wolf} wrote:*stands in the shadows and watches* Softly growls... Please don't make this a fire fest. Becareful. You are fine for the moment.. but I will be watching.

Marslynn wrote:Marslynn turns to look at her good friend Trisalene.

My Dear Lady Tris...I am not quite sure how to explain how I feel about this...but I will give it my best shot.

My feelings about all of this go back to chester.
I am sure..some will say it is in the past and should remain there...

However,
We were betrayed there by none other then Paddy and his army..
They knew alot of us were in Holywell waiting for BOB to get there to help take back the castle.
Without even so much as a mail...they left us there in LD's army and went to set the WOS free!
It is not just what they did that gets me..it is what could have happened if our army marched to chester at the same time...We would have been fighting our own that called themselves our friends and fellow soldier's.

And now..because Jeal will not allow wos into her army...The very same man is all of a sudden the Captain here?

It is the same all over again...nothing more but a knife in the back of people that have given their all for England.
And once again, we are supposed to sit back quietly and take it and do our duty to the people that just keep putting the knife in a little deeper.

After what they did in Chester...can someone please explain why we should follow them now?

Jealeaia wrote:I'd like to know when Paddy became more experienced and knowledgeable ...and then there is Chester ...and other things...

Experience is not the factor for choosing Captains and other military leaders ...it's their ability to pucker up...

Not too mention 500pds was donated by Mini to start my army since I wasn't Captain yet ...and the one to replace me will cost them another 500pds...so either some other will donate or he has to come up with it...and then 200pds more donated for the points ...so now there will be more cost to start up another...

All this so certain egos can have some glory...

I also just got my groups together and ready ...it took some time to get here and in place since I wasn't getting much co operation from Wolfmist who was supposed to be doing everything I was supposed to do with the CM...I couldn't even get access to the barracks...so I was having a time trying to pull together some troops when most KOP rally to Elmix and one group even refused to rally to a pink flag of all things...but that was their choice...

But all this work and investment and money just goes to garbage...

Miniphoenix wrote:Trisalene, you aren't saying that Jealeaia doesn't have experience are you? I first took your words to mean that but upon reflecting, I can see where what you said may have another meaning.

As for Jealeaia's experience, she was commander of an army before Paddy ever was. Paddy may have experience, but unlike Jealeaia, there are people who don't trust him. Even if Paddy has the best intentions, his stance towards the wolves has caused people to wonder if BoB is actually on the other side.

I hate to bring this up, but if Paddy gets wind of this I hope he'll reflect on what's been said here. People are beginning to distrust him and BoB .. People all over England..And that's not good. As much as BoB has helped in the past.. But people are getting suspicious of Paddy's desire to team up with wolves. So others outside of BoB would be demoralized to have to fight under Paddy's command when he's suspected of being a Wolf-supporter. I would recommend he drop the idea of having WoS help us, as this is not what he and BoB needs right now.

So I am sorry, but Paddy should not have been made Captain because soldiers won't fight for someone they don't trust. The people's trust for Paddy has plummeted in recent days. He needs to either stop supporting Wolf soldiers to regain his reputation, or he needs to step down as Captain. Otherwise, we'll have a lot of good soldiers leave.

As for Jealeaia, she wouldn't have to disband her army if she were Captain. So it would have made the most sense to make her captain since she is A) Trusted B)Already has an army C) would lose the army without Captain Position D) Already has plans set and is ready to go E) Has lots of experience as a Commander and lots of experience in Cumberland.

While I recognize that Paddy also meets D & E, I can't support him being Captain at this time. Mostly because it makes no sense to waste the army Jeal's set up and secondly because his recent wolf support has really hurt him.

Trisalene wrote:Just to clarify some things...

I did not say Paddy was more experienced, only that he has experience also. I do know of Lady Jealeaia's experience and certainly do not discount it by any means.

Just in case you don't know, there is another army here, in Keswick... I am commanding it.

It does not cost a Captain any money to form an army aside from the payment rendered for Army State Point producers. I know this because I formed mine at no other cost before leaving the Captain seat in Somerset. I know of at least one 30 point AP producer in Carlisle this day. The initial creation could cost as little as 40 pounds. The army could then raise 120 AP for another 80 pounds... depending on the pay the point producers will work for. That is still a 120 pounds investment, which is significant I admit. However, it's not 700 pounds.

I also acknowledge it is unfortunate to lose the investment given to Jealeaia's army. As for the reason in switching, I think only those making the decision can say for certain what it was and I would call them here.

If as a soldier, commander, etc... you have severe reservations about Paddy's leadership and/or loyalties, I suggest you speak with him and/or the Duchess who placed him. Who knows, perhaps there are some things that could be clarified and remedied.

I understand that people here feel betrayed regarding Chester... regarding talk of bringing in WoS to fight... regarding many things. However, not everyone will agree on all courses of action, and in order to be united we have got to remember that and do best with what we have.

For my part, as Commander of the SAS 1st battalion army come with Somerset's prestige to aid in the defense of our borders... no I am not the most experienced person in the bunch. In fact my in field experience is minimal at best. However, I have good teachers and I learn quickly. I trust in the knowledge proven in the past and look to the wisdom of others. You have my word I will defend England with all the will and strength I can muster... but I am only one person, and alone I can do very little.

I need your aid. Cumberland needs your aid. England needs your aid. Talk to your kinsmen. Reach out to them and give our Country a chance. If every soldier who ever had a scar on their name or stood beside one such soldier,... decided to leave the fight... there would be no one left on the battlefield!

Trisalene wrote:Sorry, (didn't see Mini's post first) but I must also add that there are indeed soldiers that will not follow Jealeaia's lead... no Commander has such sweeping loyalties. And this is not a guess, I know it from the mouths that speak it and are here... and are not WoS might I add.

I do not think it is fair to try to force the hands of the Duchess to change her seated Captain until she may speak for her choices...

And let me be clear, the only way Jealea can keep her army is if she is Captain or if she is a 2-token noble. I think it is way out of line for people not even living in Cumberland to make demands of who sits on their council.

Jealeaia wrote:Only the Captain won't be raising the army according to his statement in the council ...he has named another member of BOB to do so...

Miniphoenix wrote:Thank you Trisalene, for your swift reply.

80 pounds may not seem like a lot to you. But I spent 500 pounds to help Jealeaia start her army. Not too long after that I hit 0 pounds (ooc: I had to buy tokens to get more money). Thankfully, by now I've done some work and now have a little money. But you can bet the next 80 pounds to create an army won't be coming from me. Especially when my money will be thrown away in a matter of days. And even though 80 pounds may seem like a small sum, a penny saved is a penny earned. Our county is in 200k debt and could afford to save 80 pounds where ever they can.

Now, thank you so much for coming to help us. I really do appreciate it, and I hate that you had to come in the middle of an unpleasant discussion. However, it is best the people let their voices be heard. Otherwise, the council would make their decision without knowing our opinions.

As for help, I would be very, very happy to help you, Lady Trisalene. As long as you don't have criminals in your army, I am ok with your being here. I am even ok with having Ex-criminals. But if someone is still an active member of WoS, a well-known criminal organization, then that person remains an active criminal. So I would recommend that if they are serious about helping us, they leave WoS.

I wish you the best of luck on your campaign, Commander Trisalene. I will raise my sword to fight beside you when the battle draws near. If you need any help, feel free to let me know. Also, I shouldn't volunteer others, but Jealeaia is a great commander too if you haven't been seeking advice from her already. The more mentors you have, the quicker you'll learn.

Rothar wrote:I just want to go on record in saying, Chester county has been long affected by the WoS there. It made the good people of Chester leave, they didn't want intruders coming in one night and ransack the townhalls as they sleep.

They didn't want WoS County council and WoS armies in chester either.

What Chester did, and I was guilty of it too... was to believe WoS were okay, that we could work with them. As Gabby and the Stafford County council do believe now that its the best course of action to take.

Me and Lucy personally come to Cumberland, to get away from Chester WoS to make a fresh start WoS free.

I'll tell you this though.

If Cumberland let WoS into their hearts even one, serves in an army you might as well let them all come. Only takes one, I'm sorry I was fooled in Chester but no more.

Cumberland will reap what they sow, in a sense its a decision that once made cannot be taken back. Please give it careful consideration, Chester county failed this test and never been the same afterwards.

Falconfire wrote:We are all here for the same reason, to protect our homeland, and as Degas well stated:

The defense of England starts here. If one county falls it weakens the rest and makes it that much easier to take England. It is time to throw away your ego. A house divided cannot stand.

There seems to be a difference in philosophy and a series of questionable decisions made by the BoB that has made people uneasy about their direction. Many of us sat in Chester and was appalled at the way that was handled. The addition of Loxley did not help ones suspicions, then we start hearing talk of taking wolves into the armies as soldiers. This has left a lot of good people to question the ambitions of this army. Now Trisalene I respect you as a leader and respectfully believe that you would not have made these same decisions. So a you can see fighting for the BoB would not be an option for people that believe these decisions were wrong.

We do not need to divide our strength at all cost. We must find a way to solve this and keep as much man power available as we can. The easiest solution would be for the Dutchess to wisely let Jeal remain as Captain and let Paddy run his own army. This is meant as no disrespect to Paddy, just away to keep the maximum number of forces in place. Remember we all want the same thing and that is to have the maximum number of troops in place in case of a invasion.

I have family on both sides of this equation that I deeply care for. I would like to see an amicable decision reached that keeps us all in place and ready if not happy.

It is nice to see the EM up here and on the frontline. I wish you had a nationally based army behind you Trisalene, maybe one day you will. Either way I would be proud to lend my sword to your cause any day.

Stratix wrote:I don't know why Paddy is being blamed for Chesters poor leadership. My county and many others had a lot of conflicting reports coming from LD and the Chester leadership when try to get aid there, then word came of JO attacking Cumberland. So Paddy, and many others believed it would be more reasonable to defend against JO, then to continue going in circles with Chesters leadership.

Arckangels wrote:Last term in council after that dam peacefull settlement whit the wos/corsaire cumberland was ask permission to let those treators under of an army escort out from chester to scotland.

The council voted that passage was to be denied and that wos was not tolerated and welcome whithin the border of cumberland.

last term i went to chester to trade stone for iron and help has much has i can while in position on cumberland council cumberland and chester has much in common wen it come to the wos.for me it's clear that they are not welcome and never will be.

has for jealeaia well i have taken all that i can do to make sure that is army wont disband but it may be to late......but if i have to pay for her to raised it again well i will put on the funds.

Aridesus wrote:The Wolves of Sherwood, An interesting group or faction of sometimes-unscrupulous men and women. Many are known criminals and would as soon rob young women alone in town, or pry into private places and steal items and information they have no right to posses. A documented history of subversive and criminal actions. Known by most as being nothing but a pack of villainous and thieving animals without regard to or for anyone or anything except themselves, and then only maybe.

But who and what they are, is not the question. We all know what most of them are. Many show their true colors every time they open their mouths or take an action. Constantly and Consistantly they act to disrupt and destroy England. The question is, does anyone really believe that they are coming to provide aid to England, after all they have done to destroy her Shires, Pillage her Towns, and Plunder her people. Those people they have destroyed are our neighbors and our friends and families, sometimes, yes, even us.

Those names you see standing up here to be counted are those who have proven themselves in battles again and again. These names are of those who put their lives on the line again and again to protect and serve England and her people. They know what having disloyal, disruptive, argumentative, subversives can do to a defending army. They can destroy it from within just by constantly spewing out their lies and there filth. Some have said they are like a spreading fungus that only departs when it has used all it needs and then, when there is nothing of value left for them, it destroys the rest and moves on.

There are those who describe the Wolves of Sherwood as a Malevelent evil that lurks within England. Do I desire to serve with or live beside this type of individual. The answer is a clear NO.

However, what were talking of, is saving our precious England. If they will actually serve to protect, then find a place they can all serve together, where there are no conflicts or confidentiality issues. Let them serve where they can do the most good and the least damage, if they do what so many say they will.

We are in a position where we need fighting warriors of all race, creed, and color. That means England needs all of us. Not just the ones we like. This not a popularity contest. It is going to be a war. A war that could determine who England belongs to. A war in which many will die, sons and daughters, husbands, lovers, and fathers.

Let us stand as one people against those that would take our England from us. Damn you to the depths of hell, should any betray us.

Miniphoenix wrote:

Aridesus wrote:However, what were talking of, is saving our precious England. If they will actually serve to protect, then find a place they can all serve together, where there are no conflicts or confidentiality issues. Let them serve where they can do the most good and the least damage, if they do what so many say they will.

Well said. I think that them coming into an army however, will cause more problems than good. Even if they don't betray us, the demoralization, the troops leaving.. it's not worth it. The best way for them to serve with no conflicts or confidentiality issues is to help donate to the cause. Soldiers can't work, so let them donate bread and corn. This would mean they don't know any info they could possibly pass on and at the same time, the army's morale stays high.

Marslynn wrote:Well...Tris..you know me fairly well... and you are right..I do not live here.
However, You should also know, I am not trying to tell them who to put on their council at all.

All I am saying...is this does not make any sense.
Jeal is already here...she already has people in her army.
And..the Captain is not even raising the army...Therefore..the only reason for her to be removed from Captain..is because she will not allow WOS in it.

Which to me is saying anyone not willing to fight along side the WOS and trust them...is not needed.
If they will turn their backs on someone who has been here for as long as she has..and as many times as she has...and also has the experience that she has..Something is very wrong!

And as for blaming Paddy for what happened in Chester...No, he is not all to blame.
And I know they needed to stop JO.
However..correct me if I am wrong..He is the leader of BOB.
It was BOB that was supposed to be right behind us going to Holywell.
It was also BOB who went to chester without any word to those waiting in Holywell.
They made a deal with the WOS and let them go free.
After all they did...You see..it is not just chester that got hurt with what happened in Chester.
That is also when the King did away with the credit given to the counties.

One can only assume it is because the WOS do nothing but take it all anyway.
The chester incident hurt all of England...and instead of fight them...they let them go free.
Is that what they are going to do with Anto too?

Is everyone going to just back down and say...they are too big..we can't fight them..let them take what they wish..and maybe they will leave us alone for a while?

P1ook wrote:ROFL

i really want to laugh louder.
anto haven't do anything yet, even he is in ardencaple and help people there to finish their port

and what we are doing here ? we are shatter, arguing with one and other.
he didn't do anything yet even maybe anto right now have some nice time in the lake with a bottle of scotc of whiskey

yes WoS is a criminal organization, but right now, not the WoS offer help to us, but A PERSON, a person who's known as member of WoS offer his/her arm to protect the country. everyone have a right to protect his own country!

i'm not worry if he join the army! but i do worry if he didn't join the army but stay in carlisle and do nothing but keep watching us!

Marslynn wrote:ok...and let me ask you this then..say they join the army..and then when Anto does get here..they simply do not hit follow?

Does that not put the rest in the army in danger of being killed?

Edited to add...

Nice way to weaken armies isn't it?