Petition to Stand Up & Protect Our Troops and County (February 1458)

Lerendus wrote:There is a landmass that should be Wales, but it's not coded in yet. As for joining the army, best to speak with one of the big people that's floating around here. The army could always use another meat shield.

Owain wrote:Aye you can never have enough meat shields. Any idea if there are any plans to code Wales in the near future? Ill ask around the taverns in Penrith to see who I need to talk to to apply then, cheers.

princesscat wrote:After standing back and watching and reading everything everyone has said, letting people vent and express their frustrations, I have seen two main topics emerge. One is that it is pretty apparent that the citizens of Cumberland do not want any Wos here fighting along side them for fear they may turn on them, which is what we all agreed on in council. And the other is that they want to fight for Cumberland and England to protect their homes and families.

So now with that in mind, we need to focus our energies not on bickering on who did this or who did that and why and what not over and over, it wastes energies and boils tempers and hurts feelings. But we need to work together to defend Cumberland and England, for when we work together we are strong, we stand tall and proud, we will get more accomplished than if we bicker amongst ourselves.

Come now, let’s not continue this thrashing back and forth, let’s band together, be strong, fight together to protect our homes and families, our businesses and livelihood, our County and Country. You can bet there will be war sometime in the coming months, and we need to be prepared for it. We cannot do it if we are fighting amongst ourselves.

For those who want to help but do not know what to do, contact your mayor, they can guide you in the right direction of what to do or who to contact be it in the town militia, or the army. I have confidence in the citizens of Cumberland that we can work together to make a difference. We have always been able to defend the border and not once has another army been able to break our defenses down. That is because we all worked together for the same cause. Soldiers did what their commanding officers asked of them and the battle was won.

We have a bigger challenge this time, lets be prepared and show England what we can accomplish, and I KNOW we can do it. Lets work with each other and get it done.

Elmix wrote:I have read everything again and keep following it all.

There are something i may need to answer on Sir Platonious reply adressed to me so i will do that now.

Platonius wrote:Elmix, defender of England, Greetings.

I am most pleased that you have decided to add your voice, at last, to this thread. I share your feeling of it being a lot to digest.

I must say that I am saddened by your choice to join the voices of division instead of the voices of unity while England's plight is great. I trust, upon reflection, that you will choose to support the legally appointed leaders and not try to unseat them during this dire time. Your history of gallant and staunch defense of England and the King's boarder lead me to believe nothing else.

Here it is what makes the most disagreements and which will make England fall. I can agree with lady Marslynn here. It is the following blindly without thinking. Person beeing elected DO NOT mean ppl should follow his orders. Its the person's leadership and attitude towards the soldiers which make others to follow them and soldiers beeing sure the leaders have done to best of theyr ability NOT besauce "i am elected so follow me"

I am sure that you have overlooked the fact that there is no one who wishes the Lady Jeal's army disbanded...unlesss it is the Lady herself. I have even seen an offer of financial support, which should remove the only stated reason that she would disband her most needed group.

Well, i indeed may have overlooked, however i call it a great lack of understanding the ig army mechs. Lady Jeal has showed her army will be disbanded. Its something she CANNOT influence, I wonder why you cannot understand that.

Obviously, it is not a question of "which", but rather "Why not both?" when it comes to a BoB army and the valiant 9th serving together. Unfortunately, it did not seem to me that your post reflected this. Perhaps I am wrong in reading that you wish only one of those two armies on the boarder? Surely I have mis-read your post in some way.

It would be nice to have both and as many as possible armies at the border.

I join both you and Mini in believing that all citizens of England can, and in my belief should, serve the King in time of need to England. I leave it to the elected leaders to determine how best all may serve and do not set any condition that may put England at risk. Surely both you and Miniphoenix can make a similar statement.

s for a BoB army being for glory. What a tremendous disappointment that statement was to me personally. I can only hope that it springs from a total lack of understanding of our organization and is not the blatant political comment it appears to be. I am happily available to discuss the BoB with you if it is the former and would hope that you would turn aside from politics at this grave moment if it is the latter.

Let me answer to you after ending quoting to your reply what lead me to think like that.

Ouite clearly let me state this:

THE BLOOD OATH BROTHERHOOD IS HERE TO SERVE THE KING, PROTECT HIS BOARDER, AND DEFEND ALL ENGLAND...PERIOD.

The twisting words must stop. Once again I call for all to proclaim their support for the King, His boarder's, and his legally elected represenatives.

It would be most discouraging to all to see more devisive posts.

For The KING!

Now, regarding the glory thing, i have 2 simple questions:

1. Why should we waste additional resources for having up another army if we have army here lead by lady trisalene? The resources may come in handy later.

2. Why should soldiers should join under new army under new and unexpierenced army commander [/b ]and to join army which [b]from the start is weaker and DO NOT have any additional prestige bonus?

Just 2 questions i would like to receive some answers as i really do not understand why we plan so low from the start. Is that a glory or simple not enough understanding of army mechs?

*by planning like this and joining a weaker army from start will cause more our loyal soldiers to fall in battle.

**we MUST get the every best option from every situations.

I have offered Lady Trisalene to disband my army and join hers once she get to Carlisle.
NOT cuz she is elected leader or EM, but cuz her army has most advantage and joining her would be best tactical and strategical decision for England and its defense.

So lets all set the pride and glory aside and join the army with MOST advantage.

And, every soldier counts. The weapons, NOT the strength are what matters most in army combat so every soldier is a valuable soldier.

Arckangels wrote:Well The way i see it and how strange it may be if we pass this test because it look a bit like the HoP on national army

well we may actually be on the road of making a bleu print for the creation of a national army for england.

because at the end we are all her for england. so let show the rest of england (espacially the HoP)that via this tread we have vent frustrations but that we are all working together pass our issues toward a greater goal.The protection of our coutry.

United_we_stand wrote:I am with Elmix and his speech on glory.

Glory is not found by standing alone - but by fighting from the best position you can and taking out as many enemy troops as possible. I acknowledge the fact we have seperate armies and that many in them want recognition, but what does seeking glory profit one if they fail or take heavier losses? Are we not best to establish ourselves as best we can, so that we take as few friendly losses as possible, while they take as many as we can serve them?
Any commander worth their salt knows that winning a war is worth far more than personal glory - for what is glory, if not void, in the face of a loss.

However glory can still be found for the individual and for the order even when fighting under another commanders orders.For the Blood oath Brotherhood - if you are to join Tris' more powerful army then you do not gain any less glory than if you fight in your own - for when the report comes in at the end of the day - as we stand on the point of victory (at least I hope we stand there after the battle victorious - but we can only do that if we first stand united before the battle) - when that report comes in with the list of soldiers and their reported activity I'm sure it can appear like this example:

[hrp]OUR army - the combined army of ARMY#1, ARMY#2, ARMY#3

Player #1: member of ARMY#1: Killed in the line of duty
Player #2: member of ARMY#1: Killed player #8 from enemy army
Player #3: member of ARMY#2: Killed player #9 from enemy army
Player #4 member of ARMY#3: Killed in the line of duty
Player #5: member of ARMY#3: Killed player #13 from enemy army
Player #6: member of ARMY#2: Killed in the line of duty[/hrp]

See, you fight under one banner to strengthen the army as a whole, yet if it's glory you worry so much about then this way still allows you and your order to gain the recogniton for your achievements - sure you don't fight under your personal banner, but you do fight next to Brother's in arms (and I hope friends) - and is that not a good thing - holding england, for England, by the side of your friends?

Aelfgar wrote:I do not believe anyone has an issue about using our best assets. Once again though a questionable inference has been run with as if it were a fact. Lord Padraic.douglas has known about Lady Trisalene's Army and the prestige benefit it brings us for some time. His actions are also designed to suit that benefit are they not?

Lets stop with the attempts at political point scoring and disingenious claims of being apolitical. I advised before it was ego that laid us low over Chester and this is an error that should be avoided at all cost.

It strikes me the following principles should apply:

1. We should share out experience among our Generals and soldiers so we get an in depth base to draw upon. Hoarding of information has been a source of division and it helped bring the NEA down. To see that pattern now repeated within the military itself, is very disheartening and a recipe for disaster.

2. We should utilise all of our military assets with care. This means we need to co-operate and the generals need to be magnanimus. While the core of soldiers now concentrated in Cumberland need to start working as a team - so we can maintain adequate defences in the most cost effective way

3. We should honour the chain of command. Which means looking to the Captain and Duchess of Cumberland and to our Earl Marshal. That does not mean alternative views should be stifled. It means they should be expressed but in a less inflammatory and more considered ways (so lets all take the personal bits out).

We face foes who will seek to exploit any and every division among us. Foes who have a military strength that may well exceed our border defences - so we have to act with unity, care and caution.

With regard to the last defence of the border it proved effective. Lord Padraic.Douglas led a Cumberland Army in two battles and both were won. In the second battle Lord Elmix brought the brigands under Julius Octavius to battle - and the heavy casualties we inflicted on them was the product of having two armies engaged against the enemy at the same time. I see no problem with track records or experience in this campaign. Both commanders were able, cautious, considered their troops welfare to the best of the resources they had to hand - and both generals were victorius.

Elmix wrote:We indeed would need to hold together, however there is still 2 simple questions i would like to receive answers to i asked before.

Lord Padraic.douglas has known about Lady Trisalene's Army and the prestige benefit it brings us for some time. His actions are also designed to suit that benefit are they not?

I am sorry Lord Aelfgar, but i do not think so. A simple answer explaining and answering to both my questions would be the best help

Draymoore wrote:@ Jealeaia: All troops were either tied up with General Elmix, or mounted on patrols, or creating minimal defenses force in towns across Cumberland. I told you this, perhaps I wasn't clear.

@ Everyone: I have good news, I rode down personally, as Chief of the CM, to Lancaster to ask for more troops to help defend the wall, city and towns of Cumberland. I am pleased as punch to say: their Council pledge support!

Now I am back and reading this, I am heavily disappointed to see us bickering about who defends what and who.

Fact #1: If we employed WoS in our armies, firstly they would not know anything about who is commanding them (Commander of Army and Commander of Platoon). They would not know inventory, how many others are in army or anything else. WoS in an army would not be harmful and as long as they stay in army they will not be able to do anything else ("You are a Soldier in the Army, today") so cannot revolt or anything. The moment they come out of the army is when we have to worry, and that is why I say we cannot trust them to be anywhere near us.

Fact #2: Elmix, Paddy, Trisalene & Jealeaia are all excellent commanders in their own ways. If these guys were in one single army, then all enemies of the state would fear Carlisle like Death. Why? I'll tell you.

Elmix has first class knowledge of how armies are formed and maintained and has excellent strength and many numbers to rely on. Elmix not only has top ranks in the Cumberland Mountaineers, but also a very respected and well-decorated officer of the Knights of the Phoenix. With many men at his command, resources often available and certainly a keen eye when it comes to enemy movements, this man is not your ideal poker opponent!

Paddy has excellent strength and a few numbers to rely on, but has excellent intelligence contacts and practiced ability in logistics. With a heavy temper behind his blade and someone who will not stand for nonsense, fear should already be on the brow of our collective enemy. Despite arguments that made the pages of common historical knowledge, this man is capable of cleaving more than one man in two when comes to both quill and sword.

Trisalene, although fresh to the Wall, has excellent commanding ability and knows exactly how to maintain morale of her men and the County around her. She knows how to use her silver tongue and is quite able to explore a problem and solve it before lunch time. Also practiced in logistics and army formations, this woman is most certainly a formidable one.

Jealeaia is certainly experienced and full of confidence when it comes to watching Kilts. She has fore-knowledge about Scottish tactics and how they generally form up for attack, their culture and possibly even a few biscuit recipes. Also, this woman has friends all over this Sceptered Isle, so should not be sniffed at when it comes to intelligence, however big or small the titbit of knowledge is. Also has knowledge and practice in armies to be able to build and maintain one.


So, stop arguing and get with your team. Wave your banners high, scream at the top of your lungs at the enemy and let these fine men and women lead you to victory.

Winstanley wrote:If I could just point out one thing - Lancashire Council were committed to defending the border and the LHG Volunteeers were already in Cumberland before we knew of any visit by Draymore.

By the look of things you'd have been better sorting CM out instead of undertaking a pointless journey and trying to claim credit for something that isn't down to you.

{White_Wolf} wrote:Wolfe would like to remind you that it is not ok to make accusations against someone who is not there to defend him/her self are in order.
IF this continues then I will to lock this thread..

Padriac.douglas wrote:

Elmix wrote:

...

Now, regarding the glory thing, i have 2 simple questions:

1. Why should we waste additional resources for having up another army if we have army here lead by lady trisalene? The resources may come in handy later.

2. Why should soldiers should join under new army under new and unexpierenced army commander [/b ]and to join army which [b]from the start is weaker and DO NOT have any additional prestige bonus?

Just 2 questions i would like to receive some answers as i really do not understand why we plan so low from the start. Is that a glory or simple not enough understanding of army mechs?

*by planning like this and joining a weaker army from start will cause more our loyal soldiers to fall in battle.

**we MUST get the every best option from every situations.

I have offered Lady Trisalene to disband my army and join hers once she get to Carlisle.
NOT cuz she is elected leader or EM, but cuz her army has most advantage and joining her would be best tactical and strategical decision for England and its defense.

So lets all set the pride and glory aside and join the army with MOST advantage.

And, every soldier counts. The weapons, NOT the strength are what matters most in army combat so every soldier is a valuable soldier.

thank you for your questions

as I have discussed with several previously I will now share with you and all who are following this thread like the grand opera it has become

Elmix wrote:
1. Why should we waste additional resources for having up another army if we have army here lead by lady trisalene? The resources may come in handy later.

the battle plan was clear and simple as was posted in Captains office some days ago by myself

Padriac.douglas wrote:here is a sketch plan for the near future of the border protection

Lord Elmix and the 4th KoP are preparing to disband for some well deserved R&R

Lady Tris, the Earl Marshall has marched her army, the SAS 1st Div, up from Somerset to take the place of the KoP 4th Div
the Earl Marshall has sorted out a nice roster of troops for her tour of duty

Lady Jeal and the 9th Army will also stand down for some R&R

Lord Nic of the Brotherhood is preparing to form the Blood Oath Border Guards army in Keswick to replace the 9th Army. Lord Nic has also brought up a large group of well stocked and prepared troops, many of which have served on the border several times in the near past

this clean and simple plan allows near all current troops on duty to stand down and rest and recover funds etc



Long Live Cumbria

why the changes

Lord Elmix had advised that he would not be available due to RL and pc issues, adding to that the 4th had been on station a long time, and relief was available

Lady Jeal was asked in game mail several times to discuss her plans, her replies were she was disbanding and that was that etc, and no discussion could be entered into at that time.

so I would not leave the County without a strong double army protection plan

Elmix wrote:
2. Why should soldiers should join under new army under new and unexpierenced army commander [/b ]and to join army which [b]from the start is weaker and DO NOT have any additional prestige bonus?

you have asked two questions here, so will break down my answer

a) why would people follow anyone> the people who would have formed up under Lord Nic know him well and have served along side of him for along time. They are brothers and sisters of the same order, and they have great faith in his leadership

b) when I arrived I and my team evaluated what troops were available for each force, and deemed that Earl Marshall Tris would have a very strong force indeed, allowing Lord Nic to have the battle reserve army
the rest of these details are military sensitive and I fear all we doing by answering such in open forum is treating with our enemies and feeding them our plans

adding to the above, I knew from personal chats on msn with you Lord Elmix that you were ready to stand down, and heard through my people chatting with Lady Jeal that she was wanting to go sell her farm after the scots issue was found to be a trap. that meant two new armies had to be found. Tris was here with one, neat, and the Brotherhood were well able to lead another, we have had 3 such on the border in the last 9 months etc

as to Nics leadership, ok so he not led an army before, but several of us have and we have knowledge and the ability to ask
we do not claim to be the font of all knowledge, but we are willing to put it on the line
and we are willing to support Nic in leading said army
he has served in many capacities, including as my personal QuarterMaster in the Brotherhood for a long time. in this he was logistics officer for 2 of our armies
he has done many courses in our forums on the running of armies, and has the support and backing of many
that in asking him to lead the reserve force army is in my mind a good progression step
he would if needed be formed and practicing drills in the time leading up to any engagement

on a side note, on Arthur and the words you say of a peer of the Realm, and that he be a member of the Brotherhood and how it has caused you such angst, I find this all quite amazing, afterall he has been a member for a long long time as you well know, and it was never an issue when Brotherhood troops served in any Knights of Pheonix armies when you needed strong swords, nor an issue when any of the Brotherhood served here on this very border time and again through the last years. yet suddenly it is a most dangerous act
Sir, I feel you allow too many personal issues to cloud your eyes some days, it is well known your dislike of that man and his ways, why is it suddenly relevant to this matter now?

if we were to bring up issues on staffing, I would ask about your personal squire, but why bother, as that person can answer for himself when called again

when the admins have updated the mod duties, I will invite all the area commanders into the Cumberland Mountaineers Private forum for a war council on this matter so we can discuss and get all battle plans clear etc

I would like to state, that it is indeed of great benefit for us to fully utilize the prestige bonuses of Somerset

but I know only too well that we should NOT put all our people in one army, or all of our eggs in one basket

adding to that we have far too many for just one army




on a side note, I would also like to state clearly that the Lady Jeal and I have talked at great length this day and sorted out any issues that would be placed before us and the unity required to win the day

I ask now that all parties take this home to their hearts, and leave off further flaming such matters

this is war, and could be a most horriffic one

now is the time to see to your loved ones, sharpen your swords, and gather your goods and stores, and make sure you are in a strong retinue whose leader is ready and willing to join the correct army when called.

to arms my friends, to arms

Elmix wrote:Sir Paddy,

Thank you for answering my questions.

There is something i believe you would wish to hear answer to.

on a side note, on Arthur and the words you say of a peer of the Realm, and that he be a member of the Brotherhood and how it has caused you such angst, I find this all quite amazing, afterall he has been a member for a long long time as you well know, and it was never an issue when Brotherhood troops served in any Knights of Pheonix armies when you needed strong swords, nor an issue when any of the Brotherhood served here on this very border time and again through the last years. yet suddenly it is a most dangerous act

The situation in Chester what happened gave most part of the bad opinion about the Brotherhood and theyr intentions. Thankfully this topic and lot ppl speaking and you giving me both answers cleared all up perfectly.

I do not like as it was handled just like you did not like how we handled the border when JO attacked.
I believe it makes us tide now and we can now move from both and devote what will happen here.

Now when its all cleared up and i know that brotherhood will fight for England in best and most effective way just as we will, we can again hopefully work togtether and join the proper army when it will be needed.

degas wrote:I respect you greatly Paddy, but I did not know that Arthur Loxley was a member of the BoB. In my opinion Loxley is a worm, a coward, power hungry, and most likely a traitor who will sell England out in the future to the NNGO and who has protected the WoS and the NNGO in the past. I suggest the BoB would do well to drive such a piece of deviltry out of its ranks. You are wise, a good leader, and am sure you will mull this over.


So lets stop debating, Paddy, Elmix, others. We all are human and make mistakes. Each of you are excellent commanders and have served this country far more than many others. We have a bigger challenge before us, possibly far greater than any face before and that is what we must focus on.

Aelfgar wrote:I am glad to see reconciliation in our ranks.

I am confidant in Lord Padraic's judgement. I have no reservations about either general Nic or Earl Marshal Trisalene and would be happy to serve under either. I also welcome any move to broaden the breadth and depth of England's military capabilities.

I recognise the service of Lord Elmix and Lady Jealeaia and will be glad to see either or both return to command in the future.

I would remind everyone in military service on this border we will probably be engaged in a long campaign. At the moment we have a phony war that provides us with an opportunity to build our assets. Once the fighting starts, I expect it will be a gruelling affair, which means everyone will have the opportunity to distinguish themselves.

Let us all now focus on how we may defend Cumberland and advance England's cause.

Jealeaia wrote:It was one mail Paddy ...now several...one after the fact and no plan for my army disbanding due to this decision...taking a chance on leaving the border defenseless ...

That said however ...we did talk...and you offered to step down so I could keep the army up and that showed some compromise...and I said there is no need for it...I don't want to be Captain ...that was never my point and knew my army wouldn't fall though most others didn't...there are only two people who have spoken here that knew I wouldn't fall...and that I find sad...

My army will stand...but both Tris and I need more troops...we are nowhere near prepared at this moment and with things stirring in the mid of England troops are being recalled...even though there are many more troops in the South then the North...and they are much more prepared than we are up here in the North...

Arthur being a member of BOB has also cause my mistrust due to his past with Anto and providing him refuge in Stafford...I've also spoken with Paddy about this and he said he didn't know of this history and will deal with it...

Now that we have come to compromise it's time to get troops in groups ready and rotating...

Jealeaia wrote:Ok I have a question...I've heard so much here how much BOB has brought up here to help with defense...

Where is it ???

Why have the soldiers not offered themselves to the army here and helped with supplies they say they brought ???

Is it only for if they raise an army ???

Trisalene wrote:We need a central meeting place to discuss all of this pronto...

Gregarious wrote:I do not know all of BoB's plans, I am not a member. I can say that they were kind enough to resupply me while I was last on the border a few weeks ago so that I could remain on post until Elmix ordered me away for some R&R.

They have my thanks, my trust, my support.


edited for content and clarity.

degas wrote:I also support the BoB...as well as the KoP, the 9th.....etc. I just question having Arthur Loxley among their ranks, He is a contemptible worm.

Caitilin wrote:I thank you my Lords Gregarious and Degas for your kind support of the Brotherhood's actions. And thank you Madam Earl Marshal, Trisalene, for your calm head and quiet words during this sometimes heated exchange. There are many fine men and women that have traveled here from their homes across this great kingdom to lay their lives on the line and I have a great respect for their sacrifice. We stand together to face an enemy that threatens us all. Many unpleasant things have been said here and I will credit them to the stress of command in some part.

Jealeaia wrote:Posted: 20 Feb 2010 00:22
Ok I have a question...I've heard so much here how much BOB has brought up here to help with defense...

Where is it ???

Why have the soldiers not offered themselves to the army here and helped with supplies they say they brought ???

Is it only for if they raise an army ???

I would like to address these questions at this time. Perhaps, clear the air.

Some of us, my husband, Baldar, and myself, served under Lord Elmix upon our arrival until the army of the KoP was disbanded to exchange his army for that of the 9th Legion. I personally donated food and gold to the army coffers.

We of the Brotherhood and others that came with us, have, for the past week or two, been in Keswick, working in the forest to supply wood for the ovens to bake bread, working in the mines to assist the county, working at the church and studying to improve our skills as military leaders.

As for soldiers and supplies, we, the Brotherhood, are coming to Carlisle with a few full retinues, fully stocked for 4 weeks work and we will donate 100 bread to the army of the Earl Marshal from our supplies.

I hope, Lady Jealeaia, that this answers your questions fully and that there will not be any more questions as to the willingness or loyalty of any leader or soldier that is here in Cumberland to stand and defend. It is time to stand together!

{Buzzard} wrote:A final reminder-it is considered very bad form to engage in criticism of humans who are not able to respond to remarks made about them.

Please could all remarks be addressed to people able to respond/interact with you within this forum i.e. currently present in Cumberland

Edit for clarity (my apologies again Caitlin)-the remarks/comments concerning Arthur_Loxley cannot be seen/responded to by him in this forum, which has been the cause for our reminders (White_Wolf and myself)

degas wrote:I second your words Caitlin. We need to work together. If some one cannot put their ego away and work with others, they cause disruption. It is time for people to stop yelling at each other. We are all here to serve together, Fighting weakens us all. IF we have problems they should be discussed in the CM forum in private. Tossing accusations is just as dangerous as the enemy.

I again stress the need for discipline, if some one cannot follow military discipline they have no business playing soldier.

We have all contributed in one way or another, some more than others, some less. I don't see the need to keep track. Some have traveled all the way from Cornwall and Wiltshire.

Let's not loose track of who the enemy is.

If any one here has never made a mistake or an error in judgement then they are lying to themselves.

Blacknick wrote:

Trisalene wrote:We need a central meeting place to discuss all of this pronto...

My understanding is we are awaiting General Jeal presence topost in such place.

Falconfire wrote:I believe Tris and Jeal were together most of the day yesterday in the tav. I'm sure if anyone was ready Jeal would have been there. Let's all please just stay calm and we will get thru this, please.