Petition to Stand Up & Protect Our Troops and County (February 1458)

Miniphoenix wrote:Tensions have been high with the recent landing of Anto, NNGO and crew in Scotland. Of course, one of the main points of concern is increasing our defense. I have heard a few people propose that we receive help from criminals, such as WoS. However, I have heard far more people express their displeasure at having WoS and other renegade criminals in our beloved county, in our armies, and in our capital!

Therefore, I wish to start a petition for people to make their thoughts and feelings known. Afterall, we are the people of Cumberland, and we have a choice as to whether or not we entrust our lives to malignant criminals.

As you might tell, I am against having WoS here. I think the idea is crazy, foolish, and down right stupid. Have people forgotten how WoS fought beside NNGO before and took over Chester? Or how more recently WoS helped Corsairs take over Chester once more.

Even worse, just look at who leads the wolves. The leader is no longer Anastasiya, Innana Moonfaerie, or DarkDevil. The leader of the WoS is someone much worse-EvilWolfMan. EvilWolfMan is extremely dangerous. Under his leadership once loyal wolves have left their so called pack because EvilWolfMan is such a loose cannon. If you don't believe me, just look at his name. It says it all. So his own wolves don't trust him or follow him, and we're supposed to?

Before you entrust your lives into the paws (or hands) of wolves, just remember that they'll even eat their own kind.




Yes, the wolf will gobble up his own kind. After his first meal, the wolf will drag the rest of the carcass under a bush to hide it from scavengers. Later, the wolf will return to gnaw on the rotting flesh that is by then flyblown with maggots.

This is the "natural whole foods" of the wolf-kind.



If they'll turn on their own brother, cousin, kinfolk and eat them in a heartbeat, do you think they'll think twice before turning on us?

Lucy_lawless wrote:I DO NOT WANT THE WOS HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are part of the reason why I left Chester. They make life a living hell. If they come I will be leaving. Whether its permanent or not will only tell how much it changes if the WoS come.

Crisje wrote:I rather have my enemies infront of me ,i dont want to watch my back all the time while in battle ,sorry guys, i dont trust WoS

Beemo wrote:Hmm... so this a national border when Cumberland needs men and provisions but a Cumberland border on who can supply those men or provisions. Interesting concept.

Personally I don't really care. I have not been personally involved in a takeover but I have seen the aftermath and I didn't like it, but if Anto and his crew come over we may not be able to be so picky on who comes to our aid.

If you don't want them here in Cumberland then use them as reserves and leave them in Lancaster. I'm not saying trust all the WoS but not all WoS are or have been criminals. Just be careful. Isn't it better to keep your friends close and your enemies closer?

If the WoS agree to help I'm sure there are ways to keep their numbers spread out so no damage can be done if they are only a ruse. Think of all your options before you decide one way or another.

Hasn't the mantra been if Cumberland falls all of England falls? I've heard that from many of you here guarding the border. And yet you are considering ignoring some help. I'm not saying it's totally wrong but you can't really have it both ways. Beg for help and then be choosy on who answers your call.

Marslynn wrote:OK...here we go again????

I do not understand what is wrong with you people.
This is the second time me and my group have come north to help.
And this is also the second time you all have completely lost your minds!

I would like to ask you all..what makes you think you can ever trust the WOS???

I have heard alot of you say..it will be different with someone from outside England attacking.

I must say...WHAT A CROCK!!!
Anytime you think for one moment you can trust a wolf...
Go to babel tower and read the thread

'm loking for people intrested in an invasion


My Jah people...they are posting there asking him to attack England..with NNGO or anyone else that wants to.

I can tell you this much...I do not trust them...and the men in my group do not wish to fight along side of them either.
They have done more harm to England then anyone I know of.

Maybe if some of you looking for help protecting England would stop shooting down the one's that are trying to do just that...You might gain enough people to get it done.

I for one refuse to stand a side someone that I know for a fact is not to be trusted and put my life even partially in their hands!

Rothar wrote:Its with heavy heart we are again faced with the sad fact that WoS may enter our lives again only, this time in cumberland.

We as Cumbria we have a simple choice, we can turn an eye to WoS hope they will behave or we can take our destiny in our hands.

Say NO to WoS support and say NO to having WoS anywhere near cumberland. Let us remain free from the tyranny of the WoS !!!!

I for one urge everyone to line up and sign this petition.
Let our county council see, that the rammifications of what could be a potential threat here. Leading any WoS to the border is a very real threat we need everyone who has a conscience to please sign this thread.


SAY NO TO WoS !!! SAY NO TO WOLFPACK !!! LET US LIVE SAFELY IN OUR HOMES.

Gabrielle_ wrote:Gabby sighs,
You know why this started? All this hoopla that so many are jumping on a band wagon about?
Let me tell you. And I am sure there will be someone who will call me a liar, but I know what I shall say is truth.

When I decided to come up here to deliver some stuff, I had 2 ... yes 2, WoS members ask if they could come with to help defend the border. I immediately informed the powers that be of their wish.
By Jah did I get verbally assaulted! It turned out just one ended up travelling with me. One... not a tonne. Just like you may be in a political party or a militia, you may not agree with everything.. so to in the WoS.
Anyways, unable to ensure that a name wouldn't be on a hitlist, this WoS opted to stay back rather than possibly cause injury to those in my group.

So yes... this is all over the fact that ONE person, who happens to be a WOS, wished to come up and help defend the country he lives in.

But if you all want to assume and believe that a great plethora of wolves shall rain down upon Cumbria... by all means, go ahead.. it's your party. I am just providing some fact.

Arckangels wrote:It's been a while that i am standing on cumberland council and i have pass a fews dukes and duchess one terms was most unpleasant to me was wen our border was open back to scotland and armys were disband to please the HoP and a fews outstanding citizen of cumberland and probably from scotland to and all in the name of good relation......and that was under the term of beemo has duchess

I was told in council at that time that i was a closed minded person and lecture about the second chance and redemption and good faith and that cumberland should be lucky not to have many like me.......

well i recall to have say that only time will tell.........well time just did that.the lowering of our defense and the openning of our border have shown us has weeker further more the revolt in carlisle prouved that we were forgetting about thoses dam reavers.Cumberland was once a hard lined and a strick county that is now has become softned.

The WoS,reavers, corsaire,jo or any other freaking army are not welcome in cumberland has for my say and neither welcome in england.The wos have made lots of harm to cumberland in the past and to chester recently.

Stafford has been harbouring those vile scum bags and are not to be trusted and further more the neutrality in the chester event has cut off army from the southern england to recapture chester capital.So wen you offer help it's not supposed to come whit string on it like they offer.But it would be unfaire to put all poeples in stafford county in the same bag has there is good poeple to in stafford.

So let it be known to all that wen it come to a vote on council about those scum that my position is a big no on WoS what so ever.A good WoS is a very stiff one.

And i would like to thanks all the poeples that came from the southern county on multiple time to defend the border.And i found that thanks is not enough of a big word to show my deep appreciation for the service you give to england and at the same to cumberland you do honor to yourself and to the county that you represent.

Jealeaia wrote:Gabby you may think this is all about you but it's not...yes you wanted to bring only two wolves but two that had just very recently attacked and held Chester...not any supposedly innocent ones...and then if two can get in then more can think they have an open door...

But now it's gone farther as the discussion in both the MC and the Cumberland's council has turned to full inclusion...not just one or two but any who want to come...so now it has grown from just your two and the troops are not happy about it...

Those who have spoken here so far are just the few that have spoken to me personally ...I felt it right to speak to them and those who live here about this subject and yes I told them it was just two and then one on your behalf...and then when the discussion turned to full inclusion I talked to citizens about that and Mini has every right to be concerned as do all that actually live here and will suffer the aftermath of a wrong decision...

We need to know when we go into battle we can actually trust and count on every sword and not look for one in our back as we charge forth...

P1ook wrote:once a criminal and forever the rest of his life he will be a criminal ?
what a nice positif thinking is it

Eridil wrote:I have to say here I came from Wiltshire on behalf of the 9th Legion even pulled political connections to get Witlshire to donate food I did not come up here to serve next to wolfs and id sooner go home then allow them to fight beside me

Ithorn wrote:WOS in Cumberland, why is every one panicking?, its not like they are going to revolt your county towns, attack some one on council/high figure like a regent or side with Anto etc will they?, well....will they? .

Then again, their acts in the last year alone against England speaks for its self, especially to my favorite fishing town back in Somerset...what did Gloucester fishies ever did to them.

People of Cumberland and those that sit on the council here, decide carefully if you want to add another burden to your county, watching your backs 24 7 with invasion from Anto and co on top or perhaps ask the WOS to return/remain south where they have a bigger fan based and use them there instead incase a second beachhead opens up on this island of ours.

Even though I do not trust them, I am not saying they might not change over time but now is not the time to take that risk with your county while you have real enemies near by.

Aelfgar wrote:I will say here what I said in the Military Council.

Firstly I appreciate that many have concerns about the WoS, often based on bitter experience. They have every right to those concerns and if they do not want to serve beside those where they believe there is a trust issue, they should not be made to do so.

However, there is a bigger issue here.

We will soon face the NNGO and their Scottish Allies and I believe England will need every loyal citizen we can find to help us maintain our defences. Some of the WoS have volunteered to help because while they disagree with some of our Councils a few do seem to believe in England as a country.

Can we trust them? I am afraid this is a chicken and egg question - the fact is until you try we do not know. Is there any evidence they can be trusted? I would suggest we do have evidence of wolves turning to the side of law and order ( and many of those who have spoken in this debate have worked with those individuals), just as sadly we have evidence of apparent good guys defecting to the dark side.

As the campaign against the NNGO develops the NNGO will seek to divide and confound us. Alienating potential allies now may well thrust them into the hands of our enemies, because they feel there is no avenue for them to be included in England. I for one would rather see WoS fighting with us to preserve England than them fighting against us. If we refuse aid now we may actually encourage the disillusioned to try the NNGO option. A threat to England should unite not divide us.

Our Earl Marshal made the good suggestion that if a few WoS volunteered they could be dispersed quite easily amongst us. That would give a chance for people to build bridges and allow for containment.

I would like the people of Cumberland and the soldiers who have marched North to help protect our border, to at least consider this wider picture.

Stratix wrote:

once a criminal and forever the rest of his life he will be a criminal ?
what a nice positif thinking is it

No, but a criminal a couple of days ago who has yet to atone for their crimes, one would assume they are still criminal.

Falconfire wrote:Let me say I have the utmost respect of our leaders that are here to do what they feel they need to do to protect our country. These would include but not be limited to Gabby, Trisalene,Paddy, Greg, Jeal, and Elmix. What all of you have done for our country should have all of our respect.

We have kind of gone down a slippery slope where we all have to rely on private armies representing and defending the whole of England. These armies have the right to run there business however they see fit and when the counties need there help we have not much choice to bring them in under their terms. The County also has the right to accept or deny such armies based on their philosophy on how they command their own. These armies have always been the backbone of our defense. The people making up these armies are a small percent of the populous at large and very well may have differing ideas on what is right or wrong in their own ranks. Until we have a national based defense force we are forced to go thru this type of discussion over and over.

The issue of bringing in the WoS to fortify the existing forces is noble one based on "in times of crisis we all stick together" but it is not practical under the circumstances before us. As Aelfgar said:

Let's look at the bigger picture:

How many WoS would actually be here to help and with such a small number to fortify our troops is it worth the chaos, concern and the morale loss to those who have not only spent time on this border but also have spent time fighting the very ones you want to bring in. The needs just don't justify the means, sorry.

The inclusion of these folks into the active military would present a clear and present intelligence problem to all here no matter how spread out and sheltered from Intel they are. Let's us not think that the NNGO and others don't already have personnel here and in place. We don't need anymore around to help them in their endeavors.

About a week ago I had this conversation with a respected officer of one of the private armies and they assured me that the inclusion of the two WoS that were here would be the only ones taking part in this campaign and that no others would be brought in. With their assurances I would not object as long as they were under their command and were their responcibility.Now we have evolved to the point that they would offer the inclusion of many more. We must stop it now for the good of Cumberland and the good of the country. Trust me we will lose the involvement of some good people up here on the border if we pursue this.

On a sad note, we are about to lose one of our armies up here on the border. The 9th Legion has been told it was going to have to disband. This army has a proud and longstanding relationship with this border that spans back years. They have been present and protected this border longer and more passionately than most here. Sad to see this happen.

Marslynn wrote:I Agree, it is sad to see the day the 9th Legion must disband for not taking known criminals into their ranks!
I will also add..I am in the 9th Legion...my men from the SAS came here with me..to fight for what was right.

If Jeal has to disband..My men and I shall leave also.
This happened to us in Chester also...things were done very wrong...in alot of people's eyes.
If you now turn your backs on someone who has given so much time and energy into protecting this border...I must say with a very sad heart..I am done..
The military has no standards anymore.
I used to be proud to be in any military group i could get into..
But now...it is becoming something I am embarrassed to admit I am in.

We sit back and argue over letting WOS in...and letting them get away with things they should be hunted for.

Then you wonder why you have no soldiers willing to defend or fight.

Why should they?....There is no honor in sitting back and letting criminals do as they wish!

They whine..and bash people in the forums for not letting them in ...Well..my...my...my!

Why when they attack their own homeland and hurt our loved ones and friends...time and time again...why..should we even think of letting them in?
So they can do more harm from the inside?..then claim...Ohhhhh..I am innocent..you are just mean people who don't have an open mind?

Come on England...WAKE UP!

Gabrielle_ wrote:It saddens me as well to hear that the 9th is disbanding... but such things happen when new councils come in and changes are made, plans come together. My best to the delegation from Ayr.

I will state again, I never demanded that any WoS be admitted into either or any army that was serving as border protection. I agree that is the decision of the General of the Army.
What I was saying was that I was bringing someone who may have been on a hitlist and requested, for the safety of my group, that his name be removed as he was travelling with to do what he could to help defend. Even if that was only defending the power.
Mayhap it be true, I trust to easy others. But this I can say, more often than not, it is the *bad* guys who have honoured their word to me than others and have told me things proven to be fact, whereas others, their words were fiction.

While we look at associations, we also must never forget to look at the individual as just that, an individual.

I respect the words of all and truly understand where the deep-seated mistrust, even hate, comes from. All I ask is, not to agree, but simply understand the position taken by others. It is code that against all odds has gotten me to where I am today.

Kelster wrote:Right then, OK, we want the Wos here to help us defend the border, hmm. We want , robbers, cut-throats , murders and bandits to help us defend against, robbers, cut-throats, murders and bandits. Well that makes sense, to a blind man. Now lets wiegh up the pro's and con's shall we.

Hi Anto, can you help england defend against Jo? and hi Jo can you help England defend against Anto? Oh I missed, hi Wos can you help us defend against the bad guys? Hold on a minute, you are the bad guys!

Sounds a bit like you are getting the plague to help you fight off smallpox! Come on, get real, good guys fight for freedom, bad guy fight for there own ends.

Guess you know how I stand on this.

Falconfire wrote:

It saddens me as well to hear that the 9th is disbanding... but such things happen when new councils come in and changes are made, plans come together. My best to the delegation from Ayr.

Yes Lady Gabrielle, The plan has come together.

Marslynn wrote:Mi'Lady Gabby,
I do not hate anyone...I do not trust them in the least though.

While we look at associations, we also must never forget to look at the individual as just that, an individual.

We really must look at who they associate with to be able to determine wether they should be trusted or not.
I do look at each person as an individual...However...

Many are making this much harder then it has to be, We need to use something that is commonly known as Common Sense when doing that.

Here is how I and many other's see things,

I have been on council a few times...Do I agree with everything they do?
No
Do I agree with everything some mayor's do?....No
Do I agree with everything the HOP, HOL and other parts of the government here do?....NO

But,
Do I go and join criminals and steal...rob...and do what I can to hurt innocent people because we are supposedly oppressed?

LOL....NO

That should say alot about people!
If they go and join the WOS or any other organization...just to then turn around and say...it is because we think people are oppressed..or we think things should be this way...or that way.....It absolutely makes no sense!

They are there because they want to be!
And that is fine..it is their choice.

But if they choose that path..They should not come whining and saying we are bad for not trusting them..and we should let them in to prove themselves.

They proved themselves when they joined criminals.

If they feel they need to have another chance..Then my suggestion would be to leave the things they are in...and take the time to prove they have changed,,not just expect people to believe them.

Beemo wrote:

Marslynn wrote:I Agree, it is sad to see the day the 9th Legion must disband for not taking known criminals into their ranks!

Hmmm.. it was my understanding that Lady Jeal was not named captain on the current council and was not able to hold an army that was the reason for the disbandment. Or was it as you say she was asked to accept members she did not trust into her army?

Can we get the fact before more rumors are spread please.

Take the past or known criminals into your ranks or not it is ultimately the captain's decision. I still think its better to keep your enemy close in minimal numbers and spread them out, but I am not an army person.

Jealeaia wrote:To clear up a misconception...I was not told to disband...but in making Paddy Captain I con not hold the army without buying tokens...got an event to that effect...

And even so I will not place myself or any of mine under Paddy's command...for many reasons...the way Chester was handled under his EM leadership being one of them...

And yes that is a shame because of all that was donated to me to make this army and hold it...I wanted to make the most of those donations no matter what it costs me personally to spend such a long time here...it's also very important that someone with every bit of knowledge about armies to be in lead here...unlike WOS...Jo ...Fury...Reavers...Anto is another kind...more calculating and with many allies here and yes in England's politics...which is the other obstacle I'm tired of fighting with so little support...

So what's needed is a commander who has studied armies in and out and knows all those little secrets that can't be found in any guide...and there are very few in that respect I have absolute trust in...such as Elmix...

I also know all of these things ...some of it thanks to the trust Elmix has shown in me but mostly from studding it all for three years now and holding two of my own armies...I was inspired by Anto back when he was in England as he tested the army and I wanted to learn all the aspects the same as he ...so I did...

So naturally I know how things can go so very wrong with any sword we can't trust...

Imagine this one...we take in the wolves and try to spread them out in the armies...Anto makes his move...the wolves do not follow and instead attack the capital while the armies move on the border...the town will have just basic militia to defend while the armies fight outside the walls...the wolves take the capital unless we use more manpower to defend the power to cover this possibility...

That's just one possibility I can come up with but for obvious reasons don't want to express too many cause they just might not have thought of it...

So if I can't be fully able to trust the troops and who's in command here then I can't stay...I won't fight a battle that is doomed from the start and put lives in danger only to take the fall for the disaster later...

Aelfgar wrote:Aelfgar shakes his head.

What we need is unity, a willingness to co-operate and a lot less dogmatism and rumour mongering. Posture politics and ego will be the end of England. It is why so few decisions get made.

Jealeaia, if you truly believe in England then you would not abandon the border. So why have you made that threat?

Let us have an informed debate and a lot less peddling of rumour, inference and bigotry as if they were facts.

I have seen the new Captain's post in Council. He is resting the current forces and new ones will take their turn at the border. I see nothing wrong with that decision. We will have a long wait before the enemy attack and we need to conserve and circulate the resources we have. If those standing down want to continue to serve they can. They can also stay in Cumberland and build their resources so when the time comes we will be as strong as we can be.

United_we_stand wrote:The WoS complain about being hated and rejected by others?

Well in Role Play situations as well as Real Life you will find the "Bad" Guy is always looke upon with distaste - surely they were aware of the fact that the deeds of them, or at least of their associates, would cause them to be scowled upon. Surely that was obvious to all of them upon joining a criminal organisation - that they might be excluded from things that "honest" citizens are required for?!

I say why let them join - I for one greatly appreciate the service rendered by the armies in protecting our border - They have my thanks at least (if no-one elses) - I count these people defending our border at least as honest people in that I do not expect them to turn on us in the middle of a battle and join the enemy ranks - for the WoS I can certainly not say the same.

Perhaps the WoS and friends of theirs may say we're harsh - but any organisation you join - good OR bad - you gain the reputation of that organisation. If you join a merchant order you expect to be treated as a... that's right .. a Merchant! If you join a knightt order you expect to be treated as a... that's right .. a Knight! If you join a minstrels order you expect to be treated as a... that's right .. a Minstrel! However if you join a Criminal order you expect to be treated as an upstanding citizen? why should one order not follow the same rules as the other's.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying all WoS members are horrid people, I even have some amongst their ranks who I like, it is not who they are but what they do that - Thus I say that putting them on guarding a border is like leaving wolves to gaurd sheep (excuse the expression). They may do well and defend England fantastically, or as they've proved in the past, they may go and take over our capital.

And I also see the seriousness of the threat in that example that Jealeaia raised - it is but one of a few ways that a "part" of an army could do great damage to a town and county - there is a big enough threat abroad without creating more at home.

Marslynn wrote:Rumors huh?

Ok..I guess you think we are all stupid then?

Forgive me for asking this then will you.
Jeal is on that council too right?

We all know Gabby and others were discussing having WOS come in and join her army.
Just as well as we know she said she would not take WOS in her army.

And just as we all know..that is the reason she is no longer Captain.

You can say what you wish...but do not take us a dumb soldiers!
I have been in enough councils to know what people do.

So...You decide to make a man that helped WOS go free the Captain...at least that way..you can let them in!