[RP] Clarification of Duke Loxleys Decree and supportive message

Chrisiusmaximus wrote:Friends and Enemies alike,

for we all have our fair share of each, and though many would at this time take great pleasure in Duke Arthur Loxleys predicament having been attaindered, I do not.

Arthur has at all times been supportive toward me and many of my comrades, and I would like to put on record that I hope he is fully able to clear his name, and would add that we served together to protect Stafford county during the time the WOS targetted Coventry.

I believe in the heat of the situation a confusing Decree has made many entrench their view of Arthur and his Council.

I have spoken at great length and with great frankness and clarity with Arthur this very day, he has assured me there is no plan to arrest or disrupt persons or groups wishing to travel toward Chester to aid or assist the Legally elected council of Chester !

He is most adamant that he has decided his county will remain Neutral, and to assure that no ill comes to his county he is forming an army for defense !

The decree is meant to tell everyone that under no circumstances are any group or army or individuals allowed to recruit in the Stafford Inns in any manner people for their cause, he has assured me that everyone has safe passge on Staffords roads as long as they do not break the conditions of this decree by recruiting Staffords citizens.

The Decree was not intended to close the County from anyone wishing to aid Chester !

I have Arthurs permission to directly quote him as f0llows.

Arthur says:
let me show you what i am going to say to those who don't understand
The neutrality act prohibits armies being formed or recruitment of people for the Chester issue in Stafford. Other than that, people are free to travel. We have no closed borders. Simply, we are not getting involved military wise, and are creating an army for self defense in case the war spills to our side.

so you want to move through, go ahead.
but you can't form an army or recruit in our inn
simple

just shoot a note to our captain or me saying you're passing through
no big deal
just can't form an army or take our ppl away
......................................

I see nothing in his words above that will prevent any aid from the southern counties getting through to Chester, he even says we can pass through as an army as long as we make them aware and as long as we do no recruiting of Staffords citizens, this is well within the powers of a Duke and frankly is fair and square in my eyes !

Arthur goes on to say;

ChrisiusMaximus says:
ok well that puts a different light on it
we also have folks in your area coming home who say theyve been told they will be arrested if they continue travelling south

Arthur says:
no one is going to get arrested lol

ChrisiusMaximus says:
ok i will pass this onto paddy

Arthur says:
we don't arrest ppl all willy-nilly
it would be ridiculous to try to control all traffic into and out of stafford
that is a task that is too time intensive and requires too much manpower
but we are neutral.

Arthur says:
if you form an army or recruit in our county, you will be reported in the PP office for breaking the decree. so just don't say "join my group to help chester!" in our inn lol

................................................

Here i think it is very clear, do travel to Chester if you so desire, dont recruit people to your cause in Stafford !

I asked Arthur if I could quote him publicly to which he agreed.

ChrisiusMaximus says:
right big ask, can i quote you publicly ?

Arthur says:
yes

..................................................

Later during the conversation Arthur told me he would take steps to confirm these things, i said i would make a public post and he said he would likely add to it at some point.

I added that i felt his decree contradicted what he was saying to me but he did not agree rather that I and others had misinterpreted it, now that is possible but it is also possible the decree was written in a heated moment and was not made absolutely clear.

Arthur took this on board and agreed to recheck his decree just in case I was right about the contradiction.

I would say this is a most concilliatory gesture and would add that hysteria on both sides will not help matters.

Chester is occupied by a rogue force who must be removed and to that end English troops and English aid must and will by Arthurs own words have free passage along the roads of Stafford.

Let there be a lesson for all the types who have in the past considered themselves above Ducal law, Arthur is a rightfully elected Duke and has every right to demand respect and abidance of his laws from all who would enter his domain.

It was a long discussion,

Arthur says:
I will be explaining the decree later

ChrisiusMaximus says:
good man


Arthur I salute you for taking the time to talk with me, I salute you for your willingness to set the record straight, I salute you as a former comrade in arms from past campaigns and I appeal to the Regent to consider the Good Will you have shown toward me and to all who will likely travel through your county in the coming days.

Marzena wrote:"Chrisius that is wonderful news. Danke ye sincerely for all the efforts of clarifications ye have put in."

Tasite wrote:Thank you for this post Chrisiusmaximus...

Louis_folger wrote:Agreed thank you for filling in some Grey Area's

Arthur_loxley wrote:I have been trying to work on this all day because of all the misinterpretations. Thank you Chrisius for catching me online and discussing the decree instead of jumping to conclusions about my motives, intentions, etc. To all those who have jumped the gun and assumed the worst, shame on you.

Stafford Neutrality Proclamation

Stafford takes an official stance of neutrality in regards to the conflict between the legally elected Council of Chester and their allies, and the army of Corsairs, Wolves, et al and their allies.

- In recognition that Stafford does not wish to interfere militarily with the internal political disputes of its neighbors;
- In emphatic rejection of the hostile acts and attitudes the combatants have directed at Stafford;
- With concern over the ethical conduct of the hostilities and the disregard for the lives of citizens of England;
- In recognition that non combatants in Chester have the need to avail themselves of the serenity and safety of neutral territory;

The legal corpus of Stafford: Book 2 - County Council -

Article 1. Make-up of Council
[1.1] The Duke *
- The Duke of Stafford is the highest authority of the county of Stafford. He may issue ducal decrees.
- The Duke appoints and removes councillors from specific council duties. He controls the maintenance of laws and is the only one with the authority to approve the Death Sentence.
- The Duke is charged with maintaining order in council chambers; opens all polls and declares when they are completed.

[4.2] Ducal Decrees
The Duke may issue temporary decrees or laws. These decrees or laws must be announced to the people and have a time limit specified. After a period of seven (7) days, the council must review to allow or revoke these decrees or laws. A resident of Stafford may request additional reviews of the decrees or laws at any time.

Stafford hereby declares and enacts the following laws by Ducal decree:

• Combatants, from either side of the conflict, are forbidden to move troops, or convoys of supplies across the territory of Stafford.
  
• Combatants, from either side of the conflict, are likewise forbidden to use the facilities of the county or towns of Stafford in the conduct of their hostilities.
  
• Groups cannot be formed nor recruiting agencies opened within Stafford to assist the combatants from either side of the conflict.
  
• Violations of Stafford's neutrality by combatants are acts of treason and may be punishable by a fine up to 500 pounds plus damages, up to 10 days in prison, writ of outlawry, and banishment.
  
• The fact of Stafford resisting, even by force, attempts to violate its neutrality cannot be regarded as a hostile act.
  
• Stafford reserves the right to send humanitarian missions into the area of hostilities in order to ensure that basic supplies of food stuffs are available, and to assist in and ensure the safe passage of non combatants through the area of hostilities.

This decree is in effect until the hostilities in Chester subside and the legally elected Council is returned to power.

In the best interests of Stafford,



Arthur Loxley Tudor
Duke of Stafford

Combatants:
–noun
1. a nation engaged in active fighting with enemy forces.
2. a person or group that fights.
–adjective
3. combating; fighting: the combatant armies.
4. disposed to combat; combative.

In my decree, I used the word combatants to refer to Chester's armies and the Corsair army. We cannot, realistically, restrict travel through our county as we have many entry points - Shrewsbury, Stafford, Ludlow, Birmingham, and Coventry. It would be unwise and foolish to cover and screen all entry to prosecute all travelers heading to Chester. I cannot condone the use of the judicial system to attempt to discern the motives of any individual or group.

- We as a county will remain neutral in all aspects.
- We will not provide military aid or support, allow recruitment or formation of any army on our soil.
- We will not allow any wars to spill over on our soil or allow pursuit of an army on our soil. If any army crosses into Stafford territory, we will not hesitate to use physical force to squash the threat. No armies will be allowed to pass through or standby in Stafford.
- We have no closed borders. People or groups may move through the county unhindered.

Simply, we are not getting involved military wise, and are creating an army for self defense in case the war extends to our territory.

This is true neutrality.

Neutral
–adjective
1. not taking part or giving assistance in a dispute or war between others;
2. not aligned with or supporting any side or position in a controversy;

By providing humanitarian aid, Stafford recognizes that the people of Chester are more important and should not be made to suffer because of a political dispute between forces.

Lizabet wrote:Arthur, for clarification, please explain the apparent contradiction in these statements:

Arthur_loxley wrote:Combatants, from either side of the conflict, are forbidden to move troops, or convoys of supplies across the territory of Stafford.

Arthur_loxley wrote:just shoot a note to our captain or me saying you're passing through
no big deal
just can't form an army or take our ppl away

Chrisiusmaximus wrote:I see nothing in his words above that will prevent any aid from the southern counties getting through to Chester, he even says we can pass through as an army as long as we make them aware and as long as we do no recruiting of Staffords citizens, this is well within the powers of a Duke and frankly is fair and square in my eyes !

Arthur_loxley wrote:- We will not allow any wars to spill over on our soil or allow pursuit of an army on our soil. If any army crosses into Stafford territory, we will not hesitate to use physical force to squash the threat. No armies will be allowed to pass through or standby in Stafford.

Well, which is it? Are you allowing armies to pass through, as long as they "drop you a note", or aren't you?

Steei wrote:well arty thats all well and good except your humanitarian effort only gives the insurgent master idiots a chance to put Chester County further into Debt will you quarentee with your counties funds that this shall not happen Arty if you will do so publically then by all means send forth your humanitarian aid if your unwilling to do so then keep your humanitarian aid as soon enough things will be put right again so I would reccomend placing your army in shrews as Chester Counties true armies have no need to enter your county

Marzena wrote:Just simply tired of it she can't help it. Nodding to the others she turns to Steei."Bauck, bauck, bauck. Take it up with me. It is I who will make the final call not him. Bauck, bauck, bauck."

Arthur_loxley wrote:

Lizabet wrote:Arthur, for clarification, please explain the apparent contradiction in these statements:

Arthur_loxley wrote:Combatants, from either side of the conflict, are forbidden to move troops, or convoys of supplies across the territory of Stafford.

Arthur_loxley wrote:just shoot a note to our captain or me saying you're passing through
no big deal
just can't form an army or take our ppl away

Chrisiusmaximus wrote:I see nothing in his words above that will prevent any aid from the southern counties getting through to Chester, he even says we can pass through as an army as long as we make them aware and as long as we do no recruiting of Staffords citizens, this is well within the powers of a Duke and frankly is fair and square in my eyes !

Arthur_loxley wrote:- We will not allow any wars to spill over on our soil or allow pursuit of an army on our soil. If any army crosses into Stafford territory, we will not hesitate to use physical force to squash the threat. No armies will be allowed to pass through or standby in Stafford.

Well, which is it? Are you allowing armies to pass through, as long as they "drop you a note", or aren't you?

In my conversation with Chrisius, there was no mention of an army. In fact, he specifically stated "when and if i pass through it will be in a large strong formation". My interpretation was several large armed retinues, not an army. I have clarified my stance on armies in my previous post.

Steei, I'm not sure who you are referring to as Arty. We are not on such friendly terms for you to refer to me as such. Secondly, we will be sending aid to help the people of Chester. Our people will be in towns requiring food, releasing food at intervals to make sure people are well fed. We will not, at this time, be sending any mine goods. Hopefully, this issue will be resolved before real damage is done to the mining system. The mines of Chester are already at inefficient state, if this conflict continues for much longer, they will probably be closed to prevent further downgrades.

Lizabet wrote:Thank you for that clarification, Arty. I hope that clears up any misconception that might have arisen from Chrisiusmaximus's statements. It would be a tragedy if an army, based on his interpretation of your conversation, entered Stafford only to meet the full might of the Stafford Army.

Ladyjennet wrote:Arthur_loxley said:

The mines of Chester are already at inefficient state, if this conflict continues for much longer, they will probably be closed to prevent further downgrades.

Duke Loxley, would you please inform us as to where you came by this bit of information? As I was the Trade Minister before this crisis (and still am, as a matter of fact) and have irrefutable proof of exactly what was where when the illegal takeover was perpetrated, I am aware that Chester had many days' worth of stone and iron. If the mines have downgraded, then the illegal council has done it on purpose, either removing the goods or refusing to maintain the mines. This has nothing at all to do with what was left in the inventory or a lack of goods.

But, if you would be so kind, I would certainly like to hear more about the apparent state of our mines.

Arthur_loxley wrote:From the communications between Chester and Stafford when Widfara was TM, the mine levels of Chester were: Gold mine - 5; Iron mine - 9 as of October 3rd. If the mining goods are insufficient for maintenance, there will be mine downgrades. That is a fact.

Ladyjennet wrote:That is true, Duke Loxley. Having studied the mines for a very long time, I acknowledge that you are right to say that they will downgrade if there are insufficient materials. However, my point is that some are saying there were insufficient materials when the takeover happened. This was not the case, so no stone is needed for the purpose.

If I have heard you incorrectly, please do correct me, but your phrasing seemed to suggest that there had already been downgrades due to this situation. No downgrades due to insufficient materials happened while I was still in my office, as I was diligent. So, my concern was for the current state of Chester's mines. The usurpers don't exactly send us reports, as you can well imagine.

Arthur_loxley wrote:

Ladyjennet wrote:That is true, Duke Loxley. Having studied the mines for a very long time, I acknowledge that you are right to say that they will downgrade if there are insufficient materials. However, my point is that some are saying there were insufficient materials when the takeover happened. This was not the case, so no stone is needed for the purpose.

If I have heard you incorrectly, please do correct me, but your phrasing seemed to suggest that there had already been downgrades due to this situation. No downgrades due to insufficient materials happened while I was still in my office, as I was diligent. So, my concern was for the current state of Chester's mines. The usurpers don't exactly send us reports, as you can well imagine.

I don't really know about the current state of the mines under the Corsair regime. I also don't know the quantity of materials that Chester currently has in its inventory to maintain the mines or how long those materials will last. If more information is produced by the MS, please do let us know here.

Ladyjennet wrote:If any such information is ever made available, I would be delighted to do so, Your Grace.

Jeroen234 wrote:Thanks Arthur and Chrisius for making it clear
official documents are most time hard to read for the normal people

Oariana wrote:Actually the way I read Arthur's words is that the mines BEFORE the takeover were in a poor state already. And are if your levels are 5 and 9 when efficient mines are 10 and 11!

Arthur, being a caretaker of the mines and council in times past, can I not interest you or other Counties to make ready with with stones and iron. And ask that you send them on regardless of who is in power? Stone and Iron for their mines is simply too important to a COUNTY not the people, for it to be witheld no matter who is in power.

OH BIG THING: I do not support the rash move to attainder you. *gets all sorts of angry about that* May you shine through that craziness and know that some people are actually rational human beings around here, even though most of them don't speak up...Probably because they are rational human beings who think a little more clearly than others.

Edit to add: Heard about the interview with the Reagent, seems while in Lancaster that I have discovered that they too feel nothing but betrayal and back-stabbed by those that continually get into power there...how interesting...

Maddison wrote:Thank you for the clarification.

Now please, for the love of Jah and all that is Holy desist in these petty squabbles. There are far more important things currently afoot wouldn't you agree?

Duke Loxley has made his stance clear, surely now rather than continuing to bicker about it we should be finding ways to work around it. Precious time is being wasted, time we don't really have the luxury of being able to afford.

Travel through Stafford in your armed retinues, the Duke has said he has no issue with this. Form your armies when you get here if that's plausable? I don't know if it is or not, but it's got to be better than nothing.

Chinahero wrote:What needed clarification?

The decree and its intent was obvious to anyone who read it. The resulting rubbish was just more ridiculous scaremongering and 'name-blacking' on behalf of this crazed woman (and I use that term in its loosest possible context) you all regard as Regent and her sycophantic Tuft Hunters and hangers-on.

Cant you all see SHE IS TRYING TO MANUFACTURE A WAR......!!!

For Loki's sake people, READ what people write, dont just scan it and make assumptions!

Samwen wrote:Dear Duke Loxley and Chrisius

My deepest gratitude for the conversations you held together and the clarification that has come from that.

Holywell sends her warm regards!

Samwen
Chief Mentor

Millicent wrote:Perhaps I'm off base here or something, but going from this:

Stafford Neutrality Proclamation wrote:Combatants, from either side of the conflict, are forbidden to move troops, or convoys of supplies across the territory of Stafford.

to this:

Arthur says:
let me show you what i am going to say to those who don't understand
The neutrality act prohibits armies being formed or recruitment of people for the Chester issue in Stafford. Other than that, people are free to travel. We have no closed borders. Simply, we are not getting involved military wise, and are creating an army for self defense in case the war spills to our side.

Seems like backpedaling to me. Can someone explain this to me?

-MR

Leoflic wrote:Well it seems backpedalling, because it is.

He started to realize, that no county in England is going to be abandoned to their fate, and thus the "combatants" in this conflict are not some lowly-idiotic-neighbours and the WoS, like he interpreted it at first (possibly due to his anger over the attainder) but England and WoS.

A category his proclamation conveniently excludes Stafford from.

Though I doubt this was his intention.

Millicent wrote:Ah, wonderful, Councilor Leoflic! My impressions exactly! Good to see that I'm not the only one

-MR

Chrisiusmaximus wrote:Backpeddling or not, that is in the eye of the reader, however my feelings are that we now have it clearly stated that all reinforcements and or aid that wishes to pass through Stafford can, this can only help the rightful council of Chester !

It does appear that an army that wants to pass through Stafford will need to make further enquiries with the Duke, as was pointed out by the self proclaimed Queen of the Sheep who wear wolf pelts, still id wager Arthur is no fool, he knows that if the HOP calls for English Armies to be raised and to travel from the South into Chester he will likely have to comply or face more turmoil than hes had of late.

In my eyes Arthur is a loyal English Duke, Im certain he will do what is right in the coming days.

Millicent wrote:

Chrisiusmaximus wrote:In my eyes Arthur is a loyal English Duke, Im certain he will do what is right in the coming days.

Dame Reine glares flatly at Chrisiusmaximus in response to his words, "Yes, he's suddenly a loyal English Duke, once more... after facing his Attainder and the scorn of the rest of England and deciding that he didn't quite want to sleep in the bed he'd made for himself. Long live the courageous Duke Loxley."