[RP] High time for frankness and honesty

Beemo wrote:

TheRedChef wrote:

The people of Stafford will no longer support the incompetent bungling nor abet the multitudinous criminal acts committed by the several iterations of the Cumberland Border Forces. There has been a TOTAL lack of accountability in this regard. As much as I like Beemo, her council has completely and utterly failed to reform this and have completely ignored our concerns. Their lackluster response and shirking of all responsibility to the Owfio murder proved us right, and hardened our resolve. We will not waste our resources on such a boondoggle, nor will we put our people at risk.

There is also the issue of insult and ingratitude from Cumberland. We once extended aid to her, only to get venomous attacks in return from worthless slags like Degas. These are not the actions of a friend or ally.

If Cumberland wants to benefit from our defense, then she should become a county worth defending.

Wow.. accountability. What more can we do but continually pester the council that was in charge to leave. Which they did finally. And Aisafe was not in Cumberland under the authority of the council. Marzena was the only one who authorized his army to come into Cumberland. She offered Owfio compensation. He refused it. At least according to her report. Take it up with her.

And if you are going to blame all of Cumberland for the words of a few then you need to grow up and face reality. One person does not speak for the entire people.

Things are being done to change Cumberland, albeit slowly. Soon the border will be open. It will no longer be Cumberland's sole responsibility to guard a national border. Our responsibility is to protect our own. Something many have decided is the best course of action. After all it's not mutually beneficial for Cumberland to maintain a closed or restricted border.

Faradorn wrote:It is a crying shame that we cannot all co operate to protect the area.

Perfectly understandable to open up the borders and guard your own towns in the current climate.

Arthur_loxley wrote:

Faradorn wrote:You can keep washing your hands of it all, but it is most definitely Stafford that made the decisions, now they are being questioned or discussed, you want to push the blame onto the people the decisions actually affect.

If someone goes to Chester and started robbing everyone, then jumped into your county, you would let them off because you terminated the treaty. Knowing what kind of people live in your county, the tactic doesn't surprise me. We will see how many 'ex' criminals there are. You can only play that card once.

It is funny that you should also mention reform as the reason behind why you took action against Cumberland, for that is also the explanation behind the action against Chester. This is pure technique to bend people to your own will. We aren't bullying Stafford, you aren't bullying us. You are strangling us.

Stafford made decisions after a long exchange of communication with Chester council. It was not a rash decision, and we gave plenty of time for change to be enacted (or at least a promise of change to be given). If your council was concerned about the termination of a judicial treaty, they probably should have not dismissed our concerns so easily. It is interesting that you continue to focus on your market laws instead of the other numerous list of issues that we have. Stafford, although upset, by the strict market laws of Chester, did not cancel a judicial treaty because of this one law. Stop showing your ignorance and read the illegally shared letters in your private hidden council chambers. If you cannot understand the letters that are posted, feel free to ask questions to your Duke.

Again, you should be requesting why Chester has not pursued a judicial treaty since its cancellation. Instead they sit around the Commons, groaning and bellyaching about poor picked on Chester. Get over it. Chester (or a certain faction really) pulls the strings for the north, and it is high time you stop deny that. Stafford will no longer bend to the will of the smallest, most insignificant county of England.

Stafford is not bullying Chester or Cumberland. As I said, the matter is closed. Why won't you let it go? That is the real question.

Beemo, Stafford has stated that we will not shirk our national responsibility. With a declaration of war, we will support in whatever way we can, the national border.

Slon wrote:

Steei wrote:it's only slander if it is not true

Truth is a matter of opinion in this case, please learn the difference between fact and opinion.

Salter wrote:Salter had been wandering through the Commons Gardens, feeling quite cold he thought he would retire back to the Commons halls to do some usual Political business, some errand, maybe even take a trip the Scholars Library . Upon entering the Halls, Servant in toe , he stopped and absorbed the loud shouting from the group in the stalls . He grinned and looked over in an observant manner, he waited out of sight , listening to the various points being made . Rapping his stick along the seats, he found a bench that had a nice comfortable pillow on it , making sure his position allowed him to see and hear the groups . Waiting whilst his servant dusted and plumped the blue pillow, he chuckled ... waving to the wine he had brought , the servant opened it and poured a decent amount into his Goblet .. Salter looked over the bannister of the previous rows , to the commons floor .

(OOC: Rping this , will detract the Personnel element . )

Benjamin_ wrote:

Steei wrote:it's only slander if it is not true

And so this is Slander. Thanks for admitting it.

Lorddragon wrote:

Arthur_loxley wrote:

Faradorn wrote:You can keep washing your hands of it all, but it is most definitely Stafford that made the decisions, now they are being questioned or discussed, you want to push the blame onto the people the decisions actually affect.

If someone goes to Chester and started robbing everyone, then jumped into your county, you would let them off because you terminated the treaty. Knowing what kind of people live in your county, the tactic doesn't surprise me. We will see how many 'ex' criminals there are. You can only play that card once.

It is funny that you should also mention reform as the reason behind why you took action against Cumberland, for that is also the explanation behind the action against Chester. This is pure technique to bend people to your own will. We aren't bullying Stafford, you aren't bullying us. You are strangling us.

Stafford made decisions after a long exchange of communication with Chester council. It was not a rash decision, and we gave plenty of time for change to be enacted (or at least a promise of change to be given). If your council was concerned about the termination of a judicial treaty, they probably should have not dismissed our concerns so easily. It is interesting that you continue to focus on your market laws instead of the other numerous list of issues that we have. Stafford, although upset, by the strict market laws of Chester, did not cancel a judicial treaty because of this one law. Stop showing your ignorance and read the illegally shared letters in your private hidden council chambers. If you cannot understand the letters that are posted, feel free to ask questions to your Duke.

Again, you should be requesting why Chester has not pursued a judicial treaty since its cancellation. Instead they sit around the Commons, groaning and bellyaching about poor picked on Chester. Get over it. Chester (or a certain faction really) pulls the strings for the north, and it is high time you stop deny that. Stafford will no longer bend to the will of the smallest, most insignificant county of England.

Stafford is not bullying Chester or Cumberland. As I said, the matter is closed. Why won't you let it go? That is the real question.

Beemo, Stafford has stated that we will not shirk our national responsibility. With a declaration of war, we will support in whatever way we can, the national border.

So which market laws were the problem? Since they are the same since they were written over 1 year ago?

So someone sold some Wool on the autobuy and you assumed it was Chester Citizens that did it?

Faradorn wrote:That's a pretty hefty extrapolation, or a poor attempt at wit.

Also, what illegal letters in council chambers would you speak of? That is a serious accusation and if you had ANY evidence to support it, the censors would have told us off. Since they haven't, your accusation has absolutely no merit.

On another, note, to prove that I am interested in a proper resolution to this matter. Lord Tudor, would you be interested in me requesting the count of Chester, or going one step further and attempting to write a decent and agreeable treaty to present to the ambassadors to talk over? I'm sure that Red may feel I can't write for toffee, but I wouldn't say that is exactly true, since his remark is, I presume, related to the Chester legal corpus of '57 and the one previous to it, which I had no real if any involvement in. I try to stick to discussions you see.

So what do you say? You want a revised treaty, I will give you one! Of course, diplomatic channels would be best used for such a thing and I am no ambassador, but I am willing to write a proposal.

Then again, your mocking of the county I have lived in since day 1 is unacceptable, and unnecessary.

Perhaps you will be the proponent of an alliance to be a check and balance on what you deem a bullying institution. I have my own opinions on bullying institutions and 'old boy's networks' to be honest though.

Jayballz wrote:

Faradorn wrote:On another, note, to prove that I am interested in a proper resolution to this matter. Lord Tudor, would you be interested in me requesting the count of Chester, or going one step further and attempting to write a decent and agreeable treaty to present to the ambassadors to talk over?

So what do you say? You want a revised treaty, I will give you one! Of course, diplomatic channels would be best used for such a thing and I am no ambassador, but I am willing to write a proposal.

This is the best idea I've seen so far. Rather than constantly pointing fingers, laying blame, baiting and trying to influence the sovereignty of one county or the other, let the past be the past.

All counties should maintain their sovereignty and the disagreements should be ironed out within the mutually agreed upon terms of the treaty. In the case of a judicial treaty, specify which laws will be enforced and which will not. It seems, to me at least, to be a simple resolution.

Faradorn wrote:Thank you Jay, perhaps we have all digressed here and should get on with being civil and looking for a solution.

Steei wrote:

Conalae wrote:

Steei wrote:it's only slander if it is not true

And so this is Slander. Thanks for admitting it.

smiles Conalae I can see how if in your deluded thinking what I said was an admission of something being slander, perhaps I should put it another way and then you may understand "Truth cannot be slander" perhaps that shall explain where you have improper thinking

Slon wrote:Steei, your words are showing exactly why a compromise cannot be achieved. You continue time and time again to attempt to bait Stafford Councilors to give heated responses and continue to insult my great county. If a member of your County wishes to discuss a compromise, I would advise first starting by eliminating the baiting, insulting and other hostile acts that Chester citizens and councilors are committing.

Benjamin_ wrote:"Deluded thinking?" Benjamin asked, "No, you are very much mistaken if you think that is it." He stated, knowing it was the truth. "You see, in case you are that much ill-informed, I am on the Council of the Duchy of Staffordshire and so know everything that is going on and the things that are being discussed do not match up to what you are saying. So, unless you were lying to the meaning of Slander, that is Slander, correct?"


Muttering, Benjamin said "Cheshire really should tell their citizens more about surrounding Counties.

Salter wrote:Salter watching from the seats sips his wine and muses over what is being said .. sighing and almost laughing at some points ...

Conalae wrote: I am on the Council of the Duchy of Staffordshire and so know everything that is going on and the things that are being discussed do not match up to what you are saying

Salter thought to himself a minute .. it snapped .. that very morning he was adamant he had heard from Lady Gabrielle in Dumfries , she informed him that Conalae was in Scotland.. whispering to his Servant;Ilsworth .. are you hearing this ? Oh what has Stafford came too .. it allows Councillors to Work from Scotland .. I am wondering if they will attempt to prosecute him in a similar fashion to me .. I guess not .. such corruption is all the range in Stafford these days ..Salter laughed in a heavy tone, followed by a stifled laugh from Illsworth. The Duke, who he thought quite foolish spoke up .. taking a more serious tone he frowned and again whispered to Illsworth

Loxley wrote:Stafford will not consider a judicial treaty at this time with Chester. We have informed Chester about this in the last communication between Tazatron and myself. Have fun working on a proposal, though.

"Oh .. Now Illsworth this is where you can learn a few things from politics .. That man there .. yes you remember him from, Stafford ? ... Well in my opinion , he seems to have never wanted a Judical treaty with Chester .. there is many holes and leaks in his logics .. for example , a proposal for a compromise i said , and he rejects it .. he said previously i believe , that Chester had not bothered to rectify relations .. So i wonder, is Stafford just causing problems for the sake of such debates ? .. or is there a hidden meaning behind all this .. Oh well, top my wine up .. im in the mood for relaxing .. oh .. and can you go fetch some apple and cheddar maybe ? i'm a tad fatigued

Benjamin_ wrote:

Salter wrote:

Conalae wrote:ot;] I am on the Council of the Duchy of Staffordshire and so know everything that is going on and the things that are being discussed do not match up to what you are saying

Salter thought to himself a minute .. it snapped .. that very morning he was adamant he had heard from Lady Gabrielle in Dumfries , she informed him that Conalae was in Scotland.. whispering to his Servant;Ilsworth .. are you hearing this ? Oh what has Stafford came too .. it allows Councillors to Work from Scotland .. I am wondering if they will attempt to prosecute him in a similar fashion to me .. I guess not .. such corruption is all the range in Stafford these days ..

OOC: Well, Gabrielle is wrong. (IF She really did tell you, of course and you're not just making it up for RP purposes. ) - Perhaps this is an Indication of you twisting things for Chester? Lets see how the RP Develops!

Myxti wrote:Myxti looked at Rain and nodded sadly before Blanche helped her to her feet. Getting angry was going to accomplish nothing. Arguing would have been more successful with a wall. People were only hearing the little bits and pieces that they wanted to hear while the puppet master was no doubt nearby laughing at all the chaos he helped start.

It didn't matter. Her place right now was at home with her husband, preparing for the birth of her future son and heir. With "cookies" in hand, she munched on them as she exited the area. It was far from over, but certain facts would be revealed in due time.....pray Jah she would be able to be there when it did.

Salter wrote:OOC: Play the rp game ol con

Lizabet wrote:Having been listening to this for a while, Liza shakes her head, disgusted.

As long as everyone is speaking frankly, I'll follow suit and put in my two cents worth.

Ok, Stafford doesn't like Chester. Chester doesn't like Stafford. We aaaalllll get that. What I don't get is this constant bickering, insults, and baiting, and I'm sorry, but it's from both sides. And it's accomplishing absolutely nothing. It looks to me as if both sides are just pushing the other to make the first aggressive move because of personal animosity. Something that is definitely not in the best interests of anyone.

If Stafford wants to pull it's treaties, as long as their citizens agree and it's done for the good of the county, let them. Stafford has stated it will not consider any Judicial Treaty with Chester. Whether this is wise or not time will tell, but that is their prerogative. To my way of thinking that's isolationism at work, but if that's what Stafford wants, more power to them. They're free to run their county anyway they wish. If Chester wants to complain about it, let them as well. But please. Do not subject all of England to your arguments and personal insults. Duke to Duke, Embassy to Embassy, Council to Council. All appropriate means. What is not appropriate is voicing your personal opinions, whether stated out loud or insinuated in manner (thoughts) in public with only one goal in mind, to bait the other side. This is not the way professionals should be representing their citizens. It is shameful, and I for one am tired of hearing about it. Either address the actual issues or button it.

Penelope_rose wrote:Penelope's head swiveled faster than as if she were at a badminton tournament while listening to the heated discussion. Finally, two men, one who was referred to as Faradon, the other, Jayballz, acted with wisdom and worked towards the crux of the problem.. re-establishing ties between Chester and Stanford. If only these two men were left in charge of their respective counties, perhaps there wouldn't be the current issues.

"Bravo, bravo, Faradon, councilor from Chester! Bravo, bravo to the councilor from Stafford, Jayballz!"

Faradorn wrote:Slightly disheartened by the offer being rejected, Faradorn asks

"Why is it that a treaty will not be considered at this time. I will not force you to renounce your sovreignty, but still. I do not have any business at the Embassy, but I shall be keeping an eye on the Chester-Stafford relationship.

It would seem our problems as counties, are are outright belief in sovreignty. On one hand, we see Chester refusing to be strong armed into making a decision by being told our laws are naff. On the other hand, we see Stafford not wanting to be pressed by the court of public opinion into taking back their decisions.

Both are equally as valid points, but where can a compromise be drawn? Can a compromise be drawn?

I think we should stop making this personal and look to see what our citizens want. I do not want war, you probably don't want war. Neither of the people we represent want war. England doesn't want civil war. I will not hear the word any more in this discussion.

I think some simple compromises can be made, surely we don't want robbers on our borders over a disagreement on fraud laws? That doesn't even make sense.

Slon wrote:I think its been made clear that Stafford is not interested in a compromise, and that any attempt to pressure Stafford into agreeing to one would be seen by us as an attack on our sovereignty. Drop the issue for the time and bring it back when relations improve.

Chrisiusmaximus wrote:Duke Loxley,
you have a position of responsibility, Many eyes are watching these events and most of us have the intellect to judge matters for ourselves Sir !

I call to you to act with honour in your dealings with your fellow Englishmen and Women, dont waste my time and your own explaining any of this mess to me, prove to me my past faith in your nature is still warranted and be a man of peace Sir !

Your responsibility as Duke is to all of England and to every citizen of Stafford, if your words and actions cause war the blood will be on your hands !

To all and any citizens of Stafford who may be watching this affair, your county needs more politicians ! do not allow a one party state to let rot set in, if you oppose what is being said and done in your names then rise up to the plate and stand up to it !

Teh_uberness wrote:(if the forum rules allowed obscenities, they would be pouring out of Thane like a waterfall... I'm going to try my best to keep this RP post within the confinements of the rules.)


Thane is sitting on a stump with his head down in his hands.
"Would you all...please...SHUT UP!"


Shaking with fury, he abruptly stands, fists clenched so tight that his knuckles are white.

"What do you think you're doing?!? What could you possibly hope to accomplish from this, except to further divide England?!


"These are discussions that should be taking place in embassy, between calm tempered diplomats, not in the middle of a public square filled with hot tempered politicians!


"To the citizens of Chester who have come forward with their insults and baiting, just stop! You are accomplishing nothing but the widening of the division between your county and mine.

"To the Stafford councilors who are present, GET OVER YOURSELVES! You've stuck your heads so far up your arses for so long that you're beginning to enjoy the smell. The solution is not to give the silent treatment like a disgruntled adolescent, and demand that everyone give to you what you ask.

"The same goes for all of you! Stafford, Chester, everyone! Shut up and go home! Peace and unity and trust should be our goals, and arguments like this are what have stopped us from ever reaching these goals!"

He lowers his voice slightly, "Everyone who has come forward promoting reason and asking for calm discussion, you have my respect and gratitude.."

Scowling again, he fingers his sword without even noticing, and shouts as loud as he can.
"I propose that anyone who continue to fight here be tried for treason against the Kingdom of England, for they would be doing nothing less than promoting the division of the Kingdom, and that is unacceptable!"


29 days until the election..then we can start making a change for the better again...

Slon wrote:Chrisiusmaximus, Stafford is not a one party state. At the time of the last election, it was a one party state, but its one party dissolved before the elections. The list that was run was an independent list and the list was not affiliated with any party as a whole. Please do your research before making assumptions.

Duke Loxley will not be held in any position of responsibility if a war does arise, seeing as Chester has had just as much if not more to do with the words being exchanged right now.

Faradorn wrote:Asking for compromise is not the same as a threat Slon. However, now you have got me quite concerned.

Duke Loxley will not be held in any position of responsibility if a war does arise, seeing as Chester has had just as much if not more to do with the words being exchanged right now.

I have not tried to make him liable for some sort of war, and I asked people to politely shut up about the matter, but that sounded like a "We will not be held responsible for our actions" kind of thing.

I thought we had got past the exchanging of words and could actually try to work to resolve the matters.

Let's let robbers form on our borders, knowing they can jump to the other county to escape justice. I'll sleep at night knowing it wasn't my fault and I tried to stop it from happening.

Sorry Thane if I you feel I have promoted division, I am not. I am trying to find a solution which promotes unity. I feel I have exhausted my options. I'll let everybody else have a spitting competition in this thread. Just know that you will be spitting on yourselves though okay?