[RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:38 pm

Chris_braveheart wrote:Do other Jurors have questions for our witness here?

Lord Slon, thank you for appearing here today. I am glad the Guards have finally allowed your entry. In the interest of using the down time we have in Lord LeBreton's brief absence, I shall inform you as I informed TheRedChef about these proceedings.

The matter before us today is one where Lord Loxley has accused Lord Elmix of Scandalum Magnatum in words and deed. Lord LeBreton has asked to call you as a witness to ask you some questions as you are the Count of Stafford and your legal knowledge of Stafford laws might be asked of you. I ask that you answer all questions from Jurors honestly and to the best of your ability here today. Should you not know the answer to a question posed to you, it is acceptable to indicate you have no knowledge of the matter or do not know the answer to the question posed. Again, this is an important matter before us and I, along with my fellow Jurors, appreciate your coming here today.

For the interest of time, I will allow questions to be asked of either witness. And Jurors, in order to save on time, if you would ask your questions together as a group to our witnesses it would be appreciated. That is of course your questions are series related based on answers given and then of course you may ask them one by one.



In recap of questions asked...

To TheRedChef:
Artur_le_breton wrote:For the record, could you please state your status and position held in the Stafford County Council at the time Lord Arthur Loxley was Count of Stafford and had issued the announcement commonly referred to as the Stafford Neutrality Decree? The decree specifically issued at the time of troubles in Chester County. This is for the benefit of the fellow peers seated in this jury who are not residents of Stafford County and would not be familiar with the councillors of that time.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:38 pm

Chris_braveheart wrote:bangs my gavel on the Juror's bench hard

Do we have anyone to testify to questions asked or do we have further questions? If not, then I will certainly move the trial forward.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:38 pm

Aandra wrote:Aandra rises from his seat. to address the Chief Juror.

Perhaps Lord Slon may answer the same question regarding positions held
and the writing of the "Stafford Neutrality Decree" which indeed seems to have led to the name calling

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:38 pm

Slon wrote:Slon jumps up as the gavel is banged, rather startled.

Your Honor, my apologies- but were those questions, by which I mean the questions as to TheRedChef, directed toward me as well? I wasn't sure if I was meant to answer them or not, but I can if you desire so.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:39 pm

Chris_braveheart wrote:My apologies for startling you Lord Slon. I was just ensuring that there was still life within this Chamber. No, the questions were not asked of you directly so you had no obligation to answer them. However, when I initially spoke with Lord LeBreton concerning his desire to call witnesses, he stated that his wish to call TheRedChef and yourself, Lord Slon, was of the same purpose. So indeed, please if you can answer the question asked of TheRedChef, do so with much appreciation from the Chief Juror for stepping up so we may move forward.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:39 pm

Chris_braveheart wrote:OOC: Can we get back to the trial now that the holiday is over with? If not, I will be calling for the end of the trial very soon.

Chris waits for any jurors or witnesses to speak......


Anyone???

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:39 pm

Slon wrote:My apologies for the delay. While Lord Arthur Loxley was Count of Stafford, I was the Mines Superintendent of Stafford. I think that I held the same position when the decree was issued.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:39 pm

Chris_braveheart wrote:Thank you Lord Slon for your response. I believe Lord LeBreton has stepped away for a bit again, so I will attempt to go down the path I believe he was attempting to venture down with his line of questioning....he can ask additional questions upon his return however if I have missed any.

Lord Slon, your current position is now Count of Stafford correct? Can you give me your interpretation of what the Stafford Neutrality Decree issued by Lord Loxley meant please? I realize later Lord Loxley further clarified his decree as there may have been some confusion on the matter by some, but just your initial thoughts and interpretation on that initial decree. Secondly, could you please for the Jurors, as Count of Stafford, inform us of any legal issues that may be within the Legal Corpus of Stafford that would grant or deny passage to armies within the boundaries of Stafford or through them? In other words, are there any Stafford Laws that prevent or place requirements on Army Commanders to move into or through Stafford? If so, what are the applicable laws.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:39 pm

Slon wrote:Yes, I am currently the Count of Stafford. My initial thoughts on the matter..when I saw the declaration in the private chambers of the Stafford Council, I immediately spoke out against it. I said that it is our duty to help another English county in need. That was on the 10th of November. To the best of my recollection, I thought that the Council should not be idle in the conflict and should take a side. However, I was strongly against the ex-Chester government, but I also did not like the WoS, so I wasn't sure which of those sides to support. I joined the voices of a few in Stafford in calling for Stafford to invade Chester during that conflict and install its own government to end the confusion. Then, I support Helius in his attempt to restore order to Chester, and I still do. My original interpretation of the Stafford Neutrality Decree was that Stafford would not be taking any sides in the Chester conflict and that it would not allow anyone to travel through its territory to assist in the Chester conflict.

There are currently legal limitations on the passage of armies through Stafford County. These limitations are found in Book 6: Army Law of Stafford law, and this book was passed at around September of last year. It prohibits the movement of armies in Stafford County without permission from either the Captain or the Duke. The law in specific states:
Article 3. Movement and Letters of Passage
- All armies formed under [Article 2: Rights of Formation] must remain stationary unless given permission from the Captain or Duke to travel within the County of Stafford.
- All other armies must apply for letters of passage from the Captain or Duke prior to entrance and travel within Stafford County.

I hope that my explanation will be sufficient.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:39 pm

Aandra wrote:Excuse me M'Lord Chris, point of clarification if i may ...

Lord Slon, would it be unreasonable for Counties reading the original posting of that Neutrality Law, at the time posted by Lord Tudor, was interpreted to
Prevent any and all movement that may support Chester and Carlisle in their war effort ?

My own Council and i at the time saw it as preventing us sending either supplies or troops to the Conflict. ... until it was re-presented in a less strong light ... would you say this was a reasonable perception Sir ?

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:40 pm

Chris_braveheart wrote:Thank you Lord Slon and you did indeed answer my questions.

Lord Aandra, no apologies needed....any Juror may ask a question or ask that a witness be called at anytime now while we still have the opportunity.

Lord Slon, after your response to Lord Aandra if I may follow up with a question....

In your opinion, as Duke of Stafford, would the Stafford Neutrality Decree be in possible conflict of any laws that you are aware of Nationally or locally in Stafford, namely the Book 6, Art. 3 section you mention here? I know you are not a Judge and this is not a Court of law deciding that case, so I am just looking for your educated opinion. Also, would the Stafford Neutrality Decree be in conflict of the Oath of Allegiance taken as a Peer to the King himself?

And lastly, was the Stafford Neutrality Decree, in your best recollection, a decree from the Council of Stafford that Lord Loxley issued as Count or was the decree a Ducal Decree from Lord Loxley's own hand that may or may not have had the support of Stafford Council?

I apologize for bombarding you with all these questions and do appreciate your cooperation here with us Lord Slon.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:40 pm

Maladicta wrote:Mala listens to Lord Slon's testimony with interest and waits patiently for him to answer the latest questions.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:40 pm

Slon wrote:Lord Aandra, I do not think that it would be unreasonable for counties to have interpreted the original posting of the Neutrality Law to mean that any and all movement to support Chester, or any faction there, during the crisis involving the Corsairs. That is the way that I originally saw it, and therefore I would say that it is a reasonable perception, at least before it was clarified and revised. This is also why I was the only councilor who voted against the neutrality decree.

Lord Braveheart, I do not see how the Stafford Neutrality Decree is in conflict of any Stafford law. I feel that the law is legally fully valid as far as Stafford law is concerned. I also do not think that it contradicts Book 6, Article 3- it just would make it so that the Duke or Captain would not approve an army to enter Stafford territory if it were heading to engage in the Chester conflict. I also do not think that the Stafford Neutrality Decree is in conflict with the Oath of Allegiance, unless the part about a duty to defend England is used to state that it was the duty of every English peer to go defend England, or part of England (Chester), against the Corsair threat. In that situation it might be viewed as a conflict with the oath.

The Stafford Neutrality Decree was not a decree made just by Lord Loxley. It was fully supported by most of Council, and he doesn't seem to have even been the one to bring up the idea of a neutrality proclamation. Several councilors supported a neutrality proclamation before Loxley wrote it, and he used parts from a neutrality proclamation proposed by another councilor. The neutrality proclamation was supported by almost the entire council, with me being the only dissenting voice.

It is not a problem for me to answer these questions. It is my pleasure to be of service.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:41 pm

Chris_braveheart wrote:Thank you Lord Slon for your insightful answers to our questions. Hopefully they will be useful to Jurors in deliberations having a third party account of the events that possibly led up to this conflict between the two Lords, or at least a major influence in the disagreement.

At this time I have no more questions for you and will leave the floor open for other Jurors to ask further questions or call for additional witnesses. I in the meantime will send someone to ascertain the whereabouts of Lord LeBreton.


motions to a guard standing in the corner of the room to come forward and has a side conversation with the Guard....

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:41 pm

Darienbalintyne wrote:Darien was busy writing his notes as he waited for others to speak.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:41 pm

Chris_braveheart wrote:We will take a short recess while I confer with the Lady High Chancellor on a matter of importance. My apologies to the Jurors, Witnesses, and Lords and Ladies here.

Chris steps to the side of the Jurors table to have a conversation with the Lady High Chancellor....

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:41 pm

Ladyjennet wrote:Jennet listened to the concerns of Prince Chris and nodded her head that a decision would have to be made. She penned a quick letter of her own, seeking further information, and sent it by the swiftest messenger she could find on short notice.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:42 pm

Chris_braveheart wrote:Chris breathes a deep sigh as the clock had been ticking and ticking....

Finally, Chris raps his gavel on the Juror's bench loudly to get everyone attention....


My Lords and Ladies,

I apologize for yet another delay but it is completely unavoidable. There is no other way to get around to the facts of what our issue is, so I will get straight to it.

Lord LeBreton has been sailing around England on a vessel with others including Lord Loxley and is currently not near England in order for him to make an appearance here. He is at the mercy of the Captain of the vessel. So, unfortunately again, Lord LeBreton and Lord Loxley can not be present here with us until they are closer to England. It would not be a problem with only Lord Loxley as his testimony is complete, but Lord Lebreton is needed here in order to reach a decision.

So, I have altered the Lady High Chancellor and requested that a decision be made on how to proceed as I do not want to delay this trial any longer than it has already dragged on. The Lady High Chancellor is looking at a few proposed options I have given to her and will come back with a ruling shortly after she verifies some information apparently.

Again, my apologies for the delay but my hands are tied. I can not proceed to deliberations without the 5th juror present and there is little point to proceed with questions of witnesses as it seems our questions have been answered. So, I am handcuffed yet again which is beyond frustrating in this lengthy trial. And then there remains the question of our Kingdom is at war and being besieged by invaders while we sit here and discuss insults and attacks on our persons. These are important matters but pale in comparison to our citizens being killed and starved in Cumberland. So that too begs the question of what we are doing here and why are we just sitting doing nothing.

As such, I am making an executive decision that until the Lady High Chancellor comes back with some options for us to end this trial sooner than later, we stand adjourned with my utmost apologies to those here in the Judge's Chamber and to those Lords and Ladies watching in the balcony.


slams the gavel down hard on the bench and leaves the Judges' Chamber in frustration

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:42 pm

Darienbalintyne wrote:Darien sat stunned at the turn of events for several minutes as the silence in the Courtroom grew, then gathering his papers he to rose from his seat and bowing to those present he left the Courtroom to attend to his neglected duties sure he would be summoned when the situation was ready to resume.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:42 pm

Aandra wrote:With a Sigh Aandra gathers up his papers to attend other duties,

Muttering as he leaves "far too long, do neither Accuser or accused consider
our time spent here of import !"

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:42 pm

Ladyjennet wrote:Jennet returns, her face only slightly portraying the frustration that she feels as she confers with the Chief Juror and addresses those still in attendance.

My Lords and Ladies, I have sent word via ship to Lord Artur who indicates that he believes he will be at sea for some time yet to come. As all of our time is valuable, Lord Artur has offered to step aside as a juror and I have accepted. Lady Vana had agreed to take his place as first alternate juror, but there are now some issues which have resulted in her relinquishing her title, at least for the time being. So, I have sent word to Lady Ophelia that her presence is requested in these chambers and she has already been granted keys to take her place among the jury. With any luck, she will arrive as quickly as possible.

Prince Chris, if you would be so kind, as soon as Lady Ophelia arrives, would you please call this trial back into session and let's see this matter finished once and for all before our hair turns collectively grey?

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:42 pm

Chris_braveheart wrote:Chris walks back in and takes a seat.

Thank you Lady High Chancellor for your quick handling of this matter. I take note that the guards have given Lady Ophelia access to the Chambers so I will give her a moment to get caught up to the proceedings and see if she has any questions or inquiries for us.

In the meantime, guards can you notify the jurors that we will be going back into session upon their return.

Lady Ophelia, welcome to the Jury. If you should have any questions we will be more than happy to answer those for you so you get caught up with the proceedings. Also, we are at our next to last stage in the trial and currently calling witnesses if you wish to see anyone called.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:43 pm

Aandra wrote:Having received the note to re sit...

Aandra walks in to find a seat and places his papers and notes neatly before him ...

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:43 pm

Darienbalintyne wrote:Darien read the note of recall nodding at the messenger he gathered his papers and re-entered the chamber before being seated in his chair and waiting patiently for court to resume.

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Re: [RP] Trial by Peer ... Lord Elmix - January 1458

Post  arthur_loxley on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:44 pm

Maladicta wrote:Mala woke up as people began returning to the courtroom. Discreetly wiping some drool away she asked 'Are we continuing now?'

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